My trivia curiosity machine was going today, and for some reason I got going thinking about where different monsters in D&D came from.
OK, so we can all guess that the froghemoth is purely a creation of game designers, and we all know nymphs and dryads come straight from greek mythology. But there are a lot of other classic DnD monsters that have obscure origins in old fantasy/scifi novels, or are ultimately derived from folklore/mythology but the D&D version is modeled on a specific literary antecedent.
For example, trolls are ubiquitous in Scandinavian folklore, and come in both large and small sizes. The medieval Icelandic sagas recount battles with trolls (I was struck by the description of one entering a house in the middle of the night to attack the inhabitants in Grettir's Saga, an otherwise starkly realistic narrative, when I read it in a medieval lit class in college). They've been used by many fantasy authors (Tolkien, Terry Brooks come to mind). But the only fantasy (or folklore) troll I've encountered that closely approximates the D&D troll (green skin, regeneration, etc.) was in Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions. So I suspect that's probably what Gary Gygax (or whoever invented the original D&D troll) used as primary model for the D&D troll. (Incidentally, surfing wikipedia a while back I discovered that the word "drow" is derived from "troll"--Orkney islanders applied the Norse word to the Celtic dark elves that supposedly lived in subterranean places--in present-day Orkney dialect the word is "trow" (rhymes with "throw").
We can thank Tolkien as the immediate source for halflings, orcs, goblins, red dragons, balor demons (clearly modeled on the Balrog), stone giants, and possibly wights and wraiths--although obviously Tolkien himself was drawing on medieval literature and folklore. ("Orc," for example, is an Old English word used in Beowulf to describe the monster Grendel--it derives ultimately from Orcus, a Roman deity of the underworld, and thus shares the same root as "ogre.")
But I'm curious, is there a literary source for "gnolls"? What about dragons that spit lightning, acid, or poison gas, rather than the more ordinary fire? What about elves that are 5 feet tall? (Tolkien portrays them as looking more or less like extremely beautiful humans, with no noted size difference, while folkloric elves vary tremendously, covering a wide range of "fey" types as well as something more closely approximating the D&D elf.) What about ogre mages?
So, consider this an invitation from your pedantic local bard to trade a piece of monster lore over a pint of ale, and boost our collective knowledge (dungeoneering) scores.
There is a thread over on enworld.org that answers quite a few of these questions. The thread is an "Ask Gary Gygax" type, and he goes into detail about quite a few origins. I don't have the thread bookmarked here - I'm at work - but I do recall that the gnoll came from a novel he had read that had a Gnole in it; the rest of the features (the hyena-head, the bestial background, Yeenoghu) were all created whole-cloth.
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I don't have the thread bookmarked here - I'm at work - but I do recall that the gnoll came from a novel he had read that had a Gnole in it;
Lord Dunsanay wrote the short story "How Nuth Would Have Practiced His Art Upon the Gnoles". I haven't read it, I just looked it up on Wikipedia. Gnolls as we think of them, do indeed seem to have been made for the game.
I recall an illo in the very very original d&d little book set that had a gnoll described as a cross between a gnome and a troll. Why or how that became the hyena-headed miscreants we gnow and love today...i have no idea.
Made my (internet) search check. Here's a link to an enworld discussion where EGG answers the question hisownself:
http://www.enworld.org/printthread.php?t=43551
It has this:
Col_Pladoh 03-10-03 02:48 PM
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Okay!
Here's the story:
I made up "gnoll" thinking of it as a cross between a gnome and a troll, and I think the name first appeared in a really bad novel I was writing, The Gnome Cache, part of which was serialized in DRAGON Magazine way back when.
I wanted to expand the humanoids list to match PC levels, so I altered the gnoll to fit into that list after hobgoblin and before bugbear.
The name is not drawn from any mythology, folklore, or authored work of fiction--although Dunsany's "gnole" is close. The description and stats are unique. IMO WotC could indeed claim it as unique to them.
Cheers,
Gary
Tolkien also mentions black dragons in the Silmarillion, and there was the reference to the green dragons in the name of the "Green Dragon Inn" so I assume the whole concept of multiple species of dragons mainly deliniated by color comes from these snipets of Tolkien.
As an aside, I have never fully understood the 5' elf issue. I think the original D&D forefathers were striking a balance between Tolkien elves and what the general (Keebler) perception of them was. The funny thing is, the PHB in 2nd edition shows elven heights, and the three main 2nd edition setting were DragonLance, Forgotten Realms, and Greyhawk, and in both DragonLance and Forgotten Realms elves are the Tolkeinish taller breed. When Greyhawk went unsupported for a while, the references to 5' elves were even more curious.
Ogre Magi have been mentioned as being called oni in eastern lands for a long time now, and that is their origin, eastern spirit creatures that look like ogres and have magical powers. Of course ogre magi are only one type of oni, but that's where they came from (kind of like an early eastern reference to keep the monks from feeling like they were completely out of place).
True, in the D&D world, leprechauns, elves, gnomes, pixies, brownies (and even goblins and trolls), are all different monsters. But in fact these words describe essentially the same thing depending on what country the word originated. In French, an elf can be translated into many words: Elfe, lutin, farfadet (and many more), again depending on the story it originated from.
I imagine that many of the monsters we are accustomed to in our beloved monster manuals are indeed mostly synonyms of a few actual monsters in our own folklore.
Ultradan
Mmmm....gleee!!! One of my favorite subjects, mythology!!
Don't quite know the specific origin, but my little brain is telling me that there is a story of a dragon with poisonous breath or bite. I think it might have been a Welsh legend - maybe about the wyvern?
I always thought Grendel would be one bad-ass to actually fight. No, wait, Grendel's MOTHER would be better!
Swanmays are also mythological references as well - Norse, story of three sisters and a blacksmith. The blacksmith captured on of the sister's feather cloaks and made her stay in human form.
Jinns/genies and ghuls (ghouls) are Arabic. For something that will make your players go "WHAT!!!", look at the various forms of vampire legends from around the world - the vrykolakos (not sure about the spelling) from Greece and the hopping vampires from China. Kelpies, phoukas, boggarts, bogies - Scottish and Irish. Raksashas and nagas - India.
Something I think everybody should see - the original Kolchak: The Night Stalker series. My significant other introduced me to the series (he saw it when it originally came out as a kid) when we first got together and I was instantly hooked. Not the new one with Stuart Townsend, though it is good. A lot of urban legends and myths showed up in this series and pitted them against a reporter who was probably too curious for his own good. By far my favorite is where Kolchak goes up against the Rakshasa! Whee!! The series is also the inspiration for the X-Files (admitted to by Chris Carter).
Sooo....many...brain can't remember them all! And all my mythology books are at home! *cries, beats fists against desk because I'm at work*
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Something I think everybody should see - the original Kolchak: The Night Stalker series. ...By far my favorite is where Kolchak goes up against the Rakshasa!
This is my favorite episode of Kolchak, as well. Great anthro lesson contained in it with the use of swastikas! In the episode, people are assuming the swastika's popping up in graphitti are some sort of Nazi hate-crime, but in fact it's a symbol of protection and good-luck being left by the Indian immigrants who are using it to turn away the Rakshasa. Awesome episode! (sad sidenote: did you hear Darren McGavin died over the weekend? Farewell Kolchack!)
Also, I belive in some Chinese myths there is something about a dragon that breaths steam or mist.
What?!?!? No! ...Crap...Lost both Keith Parkinson AND Darren McGavin in the last six months. BUMMER. I shall have to go home and watch Kolchak now to make up for it. Kolchak was always good for some great references to mythos. I have a Beyond the Supernatural character that's based off of Kolchak. *sniffs*
Um, anyway, yes, I do believe there are several Chinese myths involving non-fire-breathing dragons.
This is my favorite episode of Kolchak, as well. Great anthro lesson contained in it with the use of swastikas! In the episode, people are assuming the swastika's popping up in graphitti are some sort of Nazi hate-crime, but in fact it's a symbol of protection and good-luck being left by the Indian immigrants who are using it to turn away the Rakshasa. Awesome episode! (sad sidenote: did you hear Darren McGavin died over the weekend? Farewell Kolchack!)
Also, I belive in some Chinese myths there is something about a dragon that breaths steam or mist.
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Tarasque was supposedly spawned by Leviathan and lived in asia minor but legend also hold that it showed up in France. Supposedly St. Martha quelled the beasts blood thirstiness and led it back to the town it was terrorizing with a leash made of her own hair. The town is now called Tarascon and they hold a festival honoring this legend.
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I don't know about 5 foot tall Elves,
but most legends of Elves come from
the Irish myth of the Tuatha De Dana,
tall humanoids with pointed ears who
came to ancient Ireland in flying ships
and kicked out the Formians. I believe the
Tuatha also gave rise to the Firbolg(basically
powerful half-elves). Most fey are Celtic in
origin as well.
Many aberrations seem drawn from or inspired by Cthulhu mythos, such as the suspiciously named Chuul. Off-hand, I can't think of any ancient myth that aberrations were drawn from, so I bet a lot of them are weird ideas made up for the game - mutants, twisted monstrous variants of animals, and so on.
Constructs we know come from the Hebrew mythology of the clay golem. Iron golems are robots and flesh golems are Frankenstein's monster, and other golems are just expanding on this basic idea. A lot of humanoid constructs are also based on the idea of a golem variant or the mediaeval equivalent of humanoid robots.
Fire-breathing dragons are an old part of mythology, as are lesser dragons. Since dragons are snake-like it's not a big stretch to imagine them having poison. Perhaps the idea of other true dragons that have different breath weapons, were made up for the game when people got bored of all dragons breathing fire, and wondered if they could breathe other elements?
I'm not sure where elementals come from.
Fey I think are of Celtic origin, as with pointy-eared elves and leprechauns. Despite being from Ireland I don't know much about Celtic folklore.
Giants are ubiquitous in folklore but they're mainly Norse, as in the Jotuns and trolls.
Humanoids vary. Dwarves are Norse, elves are either Norse or Celtic depending on your type of elf, gnomes are probably Celtic, orcs are... probably from whoever had ogres, too.
Magical beasts are mainly just animals or the like with magical powers, so I think a lot of those are made up.
Oozes, I really can't think of mythology that included attacks by oozes, so I'm going to have to chalk that one up to those old Attack of the Ooze" movies :)
Outsiders are from various mythologies. Angels, devils and demons are Christian in origin of course, some having roots in Persian or Hebrew mythology. Yugoloths I think were added just to fill in the rule of three by making a neutral evil set. Rakshasa are Indian.
Undead vary. Incorporeal undead basically all come from the idea of a ghost who stays around to haunt the living, which is a common belief amongst cultures. Corporeal undead are basically zombies, skeletons and so forth, so it's easy to see how people might fear the idea that the dead would become animated.
For my college english class on Tolkien I actually wrote my research paper on how Tolkien influnced D&D after my professor requested it.
While I don't agree with all the points in my paper (I love to write papers that make me think from other peoples points of view) it is entertaining.
If anyone is interested I will e-mail it to you. My addy is Celiwyn@gmail.com.
Let all keep in mind that while Gygax may of borrowed from Tolkien a bit, Tolkien borrowed *alot* from history and most likely did not create hobbits himself as he based alot of his stories off of much older stories. So did D&D borrow from Tolkien or did it borrow from the same sources Tolkien borrowed from...
I could go in circles for hours.
Let all keep in mind that while Gygax may of borrowed from Tolkien a bit, Tolkien borrowed *alot* from history and most likely did not create hobbits himself as he based alot of his stories off of much older stories. So did D&D borrow from Tolkien or did it borrow from the same sources Tolkien borrowed from...
You're being nice - my other half states, in no uncertain terms, that Tolkien was a thief who happened to rewrite a bunch of old myths and legends in a new version. "Lazy" as he calls it.
What really gets my goat is when people say that Tolkien created dwarves and elves. Insta-frothing at the mouth. I had to forcefully correct someone on the subject, which I wouldn't have had to do if the person had gotten a decent education in literature and our cultural myths...
I should stop ranting before I really get started on that particular bone to pick. *hears part of my brain start to sizzle in anger*
Heh. Of course, Tolkein never made an attempt to hide the fact that he borrowed heavily from Anglo-Saxon and Teutonic myths. He talked about it quite freely, as a matter of fact.
That being said, while I love research (that would be the histiography classes coming out) I find it much more interesting tracing the pedigree of a particular monster.
Example: How did the troll evolve from the Norse myths (in which they were larger than human, definitely, and oftentimes savage, but were intelligent and sorcerous as well) into the green rend-o-rama that we all know and love (and waste pints of oil on)?
Ah yes, I learned I had to be nice. After all I was in a Tolkien Studies CLASS... To try to say anything negative about him in a class dedicated to studying how great he was would be bad... and he really is a great writer.
Tolkien borrowed, but he had to find and translate myths and stories that had long been forgotten, so he wasn't too lazy.
Nice to meet you Lilith! Any chance you live anywhere near WA? Drop me an e-mail sometime, Celiwyn@gmail.com. Sorry I lurked so long without posting, Thanis normally just filled me in since we can't both use the computer at the same time.
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Sorry I lurked so long without posting, Thanis normally just filled me in since we can't both use the computer at the same time.
So are you and Thanis connected in some social manner? WELCOME!! He's a good source on the boards. Great community we have here.
Leviathan
created by god on the 5th day of creation and was part of a pair. God decided they were too powerful to keep as a breeding race and destroyed one of them. To compensate for the loss of its mate, god granted immortality to the beast and since then has played with Leviathan during the last 3 hours of every day. This will continue until Judgement Day when the one of the Archangels will kill it and use its meat to feed the Righteous. There was other stuff that were to be done with the scales and hide, but I can't remember right now.
FH
I heard someone say that clay golems originated from hebrew legends. Can anyone help me out here I've been trying to find this everywhere.
Frost giants specifically were the norse gods opponents in the ragnarok. This can be seen reflected in he Monster manual as the blackguard Frost giant example is named a Jarl, the nordic equivalent to a cheiftan or nobility.
Valkiries were originally evil vixens that strewed battle and death for the nords (very much alike the erynies). This was before they were altered into the benevolent guides to rightous warriors.
Zombies arised from misunderstandings in Vodoo beliefs. Sphinx's, pop up in greek and egyptian mythology.
Cyclopses (which I am still surprised have not made an appearance in D&D) and griffons are spawned from ancient cultures uncovering fossils of dead species. A Mastodon skull has a large cavity in the center of the forehead. And griffions were a triceratops like dinosaur (A horseish body with a beaked skull)
Is a marilith tied to any Indian myths? (just a guess looking at shiva)
All incorporial undead stem from Goastwriter, a childrens show in the early 90'S.
Mind Flayers?
Elves Drow and dark elves were one (seemingly) in norse mythology. Elvs were a black skinned light hating species that were master craftmen. They were the ones that forged Thor's hammer which I am not going to even attempt to spell. A design that alowed the hammer to be folded into itself to be as small as a coin, or at maximum size as large as a small house.
It's Mjolnir, Sexi. :-D
And Celiwyn, I'm actually in Oregon, which ain't exactly *too* far from Washington.
Mariliths might (and I'm speculating here) be derived from a combination of Indian myths - there was a goddess/demon named Mara that tempted Buddha when he sat beneath the Bodhi tree.
Here's a few more tidbits from my Field Guide to Demons, Fairies, Fallen Angels and Other Subversive Spirits book:
Merrow: In D&D, they are aquatic trolls. In Irish mythos (called moruadh or moruach) they are a musical species of sea fairy. The music was heard coming from beneath the waves or floating on the surface, and the merrow were seen dancing on the shores or waves. Charming and seductive by nature, they can be extremely vengeful if crossed. They wore red caps with feathers in them that allows them to dive beneath their waves to their undersea homes. The male merrow is quite deformed, with green hair, red nose and tiny eyes. The female merrow preferred mortal human lovers to the deformed male merrow. The male merrow usually stay underwater, where they chain the drowned spirits of fishermen and sailors in cages at the bottom of the sea.
Tengu: T'ien-keu in China, related to the garuda from India, more popularly known as the kenku from Japan. Divided into higher and lower castes, the "inferior" kenku take orders from the higher kenku who live on mountain tops. They are believed to be the spirits of vengeful or arrogant dead who take delight in vicious practical jokes, particularly towards Buddhist monks. They also had the (bad) habit of stealing children, who were eventually returned to their parents in a confused state from which they never recovered. They can also grant supernatural powers to their followers, the most notable being the yamabushi, "mountain priests" who were able to cure diseases and exorcise demons.
Duergar: A solitary and malicious fairy that leads travelers astray, he believes that the hills are his alone and wants to cause harm, mischief or death to trespassers. (How they came to be the underground slaves of illithid is a mystery to me!)
Djinn: Invisible spirits of smokeless fire with no bodies of their own, they are masters of illusion and illusory disguises. When they appear in human form, their eyes are fiery and set vertically, rather than horizontally in their head. According to the Q'uran, they are those djinn who have divided into sects - those that are harmless ("some of us are righteous") and those that are damned, and will go to hell ("some of use are otherwise"). Another popular belief is that when a human is born, his supernatural djinni twin is born - they are linked together and tempt the human to do the wrong things. He is always present, as is his guardian angel. If the human were to damage to his djinni twin, he would do harm to himself as well, potentially causing insanity.
Ghoul: Not too different from how they are portrayed in D&D, they have the ability to shape shift, but they always have hooved feet; ox, camel, horse and human are its favored forms. They light fires to deceive travelers and call out and invite them to sit by the fire. They have the ability to sing (like a siren) to lure a traveler in, where they usually show its claws and rip its prey apart. However, they can be generous if treated well. If a traveler cuts his hair (usually overgrown and shaggy so he cannot see) and grooms him to see properly, the ghoul will go out of its way to help that person. Si'lats, female ghouls are just as hideous and carnivorous, but they have a generous side as well. A si'lat will treat a human (baby, presumably) as one of her own if nursed at her breast. (An interesting note is that the ghouls in this version are not undead as they are often portrayed.)
Probably one of my favorite portrayals is Pazuzu - popularized in The Exorcist movies, his image was placed in the window of a home to ward off others of his own kind. Turned around, facing inward, was inviting him and his kind into your home.
Anyway, that's all I got for now. I recommend the book for anybody, as it handily includes "Dispelling & Disarming Techniques" for many of the creatures mentioned. Lots of fuel for a game adventure or five.
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To Sexi Golem
there was a trilogy of german silent films (1914, 1917, & 1920) by Paul Wegener about a golem created by a quabalist/rabbi, so I'm pretty sure you're right about the origins of golems coming from jewish mythology. Ironically, Wegener went on to make propaganda films for the Nazis. You can pick up Der Golem at Wal Mart for 5 bucks (its worth it--the film was shot by Karl Freund who shot the Karloff version of the Mummy).
To Sexi Golem
there was a trilogy of german silent films (1914, 1917, & 1920) by Paul Wegener about a golem created by a quabalist/rabbi, so I'm pretty sure you're right about the origins of golems coming from jewish mythology. Ironically, Wegener went on to make propaganda films for the Nazis. You can pick up Der Golem at Wal Mart for 5 bucks (its worth it--the film was shot by Karl Freund who shot the Karloff version of the Mummy).
Thanks, I'll have to see if I can find it. I also found a norse myth in one of my books recently where an evil giant created a clay giant using a mares heart to power it. It "stetched from the ground to the clouds" but was very slow and Thor ended up bashing it's head in.
To Sexi Golem
there was a trilogy of german silent films (1914, 1917, & 1920) by Paul Wegener about a golem created by a quabalist/rabbi, so I'm pretty sure you're right about the origins of golems coming from jewish mythology. Ironically, Wegener went on to make propaganda films for the Nazis. You can pick up Der Golem at Wal Mart for 5 bucks (its worth it--the film was shot by Karl Freund who shot the Karloff version of the Mummy).
It is indeed of Jewish origins. I learned about it from a great book called "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay," by Michael Cabon. It gets explained in detail.
On the surface, it's about comic books and creativity, but it also makes a claim that Superman is a jewish Golem myth.