I'm toying with the idea of a new house rule: making dwarves Small creatures with the Powerful Build ability (as the half-giants of Expanded Psionics and the goliaths of Races of Stone), rather than Medium.
I think this change would help the dwarf player race closer to the traditional dwarves of fantasy literature, as in "The Hobbit" and "Lord of the Ring".
Indeed, in the current rules, a dwarf could ride a horse (Large size) and cannot ride a poney (Medium size). However, in all the books I've read, I've never seen a dwarf tall enough to ride a horse.
What do you think of this adjustement? Would it make the dwarves overpowered?
I'm toying with the idea of a new house rule: making dwarves Small creatures with the Powerful Build ability (as the half-giants of Expanded Psionics and the goliaths of Races of Stone), rather than Medium.
I think this change would help the dwarf player race closer to the traditional dwarves of fantasy literature, as in "The Hobbit" and "Lord of the Ring".
Indeed, in the current rules, a dwarf could ride a horse (Large size) and cannot ride a poney (Medium size). However, in all the books I've read, I've never seen a dwarf tall enough to ride a horse.
What do you think of this adjustement? Would it make the dwarves overpowered?
What does the Powerful Build abitity grant them? I'm not familar with that at all, but being small gives them a +1 to hit and to their AC, a +4 to their hide skill (you know how stealthy those Dwarves can be), give them a -4 (?) on grapple checks, and might necessitate a change in their racial weapons to a small size (with less damage).
That being said, I'm sure that most dwarves would be happy about your suggested changes, as it would give them a better chance to smite orcs - and what self-respecting dwarf wouldn't like that?
Celric
I don't have the exact text in front of me right now, but if I remember correctly, Powerful Build allows a creature to be treated as if it was one size category larger in regard to weapon sizes and special attacks (trip, grapple, etc.)
With the powerful buid ability they would not have a malus on grapple check I think, if the rules were created now maybe they would have it.
It seems a good house rule.
I don't have the exact text in front of me right now, but if I remember correctly, Powerful Build allows a creature to be treated as if it was one size category larger in regard to weapon sizes and special attacks (trip, grapple, etc.)
If that's all it gives, then I think it's a good idea, and might even be balanced. If they can use the next-size-up weapons (medium in this case) then the flavor of the Waraxe can be preserved. Would they still have limited carrying capacity like other smaller creatures?
One thing just struck me. You aren't using this combination to negate the negitives of being a smaller creature, right? You just wanted to work the rules to create a race more consistant with popular literature that would still be viable. If the first is the case - shame on you (but clever), but if the second is true, then it might just be easier to rule that Dwarves are considered medium creatures with regards to everything EXCEPT riding horses where they are small. :)
just a thought.
From the d20SRD.org
Powerful Build (Ex)
The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
I'd think this would certianly make dwarves more powerful - Powerful Build is a benificial ability.
Personally I think your on to something but might have to work on the Dwarf race as a whole to keep it balanced. Of course you could also have them carry as quadripeds and maybe give out a few other advantages and then say they have a +1 level adjustment.
In fact being small size with Powerful Build will give them only bonuses:
+1 to hit and +1 to ac.
In this case to balance these bonuses you can take away the stability bonus.
I'm toying with... making dwarves Small creatures...
...in the current rules, a dwarf could ride a horse (Large size) and cannot ride a poney (Medium size). However, in all the books I've read, I've never seen a dwarf tall enough to ride a horse...
My take is that dwarves aren't Small, they're short -- there's a difference. I'd leave them as-is.
Remember, they are still as massive as humans (take a look at the carrying capacities of ponies & horses).
My two coppers :)
Jack
Here's my take on Small dwarves. Note the absence of anything regarding 'stone.' That'll be covered by a more cultural template, which I'll balance much like the 'savage' and 'noble' templates at the Waking Lands.
[size=18]Dwarves[/size]
Ability Score Modifications: +2 Con, -2 Cha
Small: As small creatures, dwarves gain a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks.
Base Land Speed: 20 ft.
Senses: 60 ft. darkvision
Relentless (Ex): Dwarves can move at their base land speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
Powerful Build (Ex): The physical stature of dwarves lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a dwarf is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the dwarf is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A dwarf is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A dwarf can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Improved Carrying Capacity (Ex): Dwarves can lift and carry as much as a creature one size category larger.
Stability (Ex): Dwarves are exceptionally stable on their feet. A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground.
Resistant (Ex): Dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus against poison, spells, and spell-like abilities.
Stalwart (Ex): Dwarves are innately prepared for attacks, receiving a +1 dodge bonus to AC.
Perennial (Ex): Most dwarves see nearly sixty years pass by before they consider adventuring. Having lived this long gives dwarves a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (history) checks.
Favored Class: Fighter
Additionally, dwarves may treat certain exotic weapons as non-exotics of the same sort; these weapons are prefixed with ‘dwarven.’
If you have access to Oriental Adventures check out the Bakimono as they sound similier to what your talking about.
Here's my take on Small dwarves. Note the absence of anything regarding 'stone.' That'll be covered by a more cultural template, which I'll balance much like the 'savage' and 'noble' templates at the Waking Lands.
This is a pretty good base to build on. I liked eevrything except the Stalwart ability. Also your using some varient system I don't understand. For myself (and most DMs probably) Dwarves should be all about stone and living underground.
Still I have to think that the idea of Dwarves being small with powerful build is a really good idea.
The more I think about it the more I buy into that being the essence of Dwarvishness as opposed to them just being a medium creature. When I think of Dwarves I think of powerful short people not normal average sized people. Dwarves should not be able to jump as far etc. as a human.
Powerful build on a small creature is good but its probably not as good as it is on a medium creature. Powerful build really just allows normal sized weaponry to be used and makes grappling a dwarf as tough as grappling a human. This would also make players more likely to have their dwarves be combat orientated as they would make excellent fighters with the benifits to AC for being small but not most of the penalties.
My take is that dwarves aren't Small, they're short -- there's a difference.
Remember, they are still as massive as humans
Jack
I argue the opposite. Dwarves ARE (physically anyway) essentially a gnome with the powerful build BUT they are NOT a small creature. I dissalow most reaces apart from the standard ons but I have a big problem with the "powerful build" ability I do not have the races of stone or the psionics handbook on hand so someone please correct me if im wrong in assuming that powerful build races have an average height of at 7 feet tall or higher.
Minotaurs are about 7 feet tall. They are large. An abnormally large human can reach 7 feet but I would still count it as a medium creature. The powerful build lets characters assume almost all the benifits of a large creature without any of the penalties. First off i think it is too powerful in an of itself but secondly it looks like a munchkin dream come true. It can quickly get out of hand. For instance a goliath fighter at first level takes the monkey grip feat for his greatsword (complete warrior). Now you have a so called "medium" sized character weilding a HUGE greatsword (weighs 80 pounds), now he does 4d6 an attack for a -2 penalty on attack. Enlage person a 1st level spell is cast on him and now he does 6d6 per hit. Not my idea of balance.
If it hits like a large creature, looks like a large creature, and is strong as a large creature, then it SHOULD be a large creature. Or in this case a medium creature.
I would leave dwarves as is but if you plan on making the change make shure they have penalties that keep them balanced, or a level adjustment.
All just MHO
While all current creatures with Powerful Build are, indeed, just shy of Large size, there is nothing to say that a race can't be smaller than that and have the trait as well. They'd be 'just shy of' medium, if a small creature, for example.
However, a couple of things said have helped me, at least, decide that this is not a good idea. First, anytime someone makes a statement that 'it gives them all of the advantages of <whatever>, but almost none of the penalties', that should throw up a red flag right there.
Think about it: A small dwarf with powerful build has, as his only drawback, the fact that he can't jump as far as a medium sized creature. In return, he can carry as much as a medium creature, use medium sized weapons, gains a +1 to AC and to attack rolls, and a +4 to hide checks. Gee, where do I sign up?!
Second, all races with the powerful build trait have a +1 LA. In my opinion, that's precisely /because/ they have most of the significant advantages of the larger size, but very few of the penalties.
Take this a step further: A medium creature with Powerful Build may not get the size penalties to hit and AC, but neither does he get the 10' reach. A small creature with Powerful Build would not only get BONUSES due to his size, he's not missing out on any extra reach. To me, that makes it a very powerful ability for a Small creature to have, which would at /least/ put it in the upper end of a +1 LA, and shove it over to a +2 LA if you allow them to carry as much as a medium sized creature. Goliaths and Half-Giants don't get to carry as much as a Large creature.
No, I think I like dwarves as Medium Sized. They have a small drawback in their 20ft movement to counter the fact armor and encumberance doesn't affect that movement - which, incidentally, affects their jump distances - and that's fine with me.