For relatively high hd creatures with class levels, I'm finding the point at which they hit epic progression, and which parts of classes hit epic progression confusing...
A medusa cleric 15 has 21 class levels - 6 monster levels, 15 cleric levels. Does she stop receiving spell slots (the epic rules would suggest so), or does the spell level progression continue until hitting 20th class level?
I'm finding epic progression a little confusing... this is probably why I focus on low and mid level adventures.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ashavan
For relatively high hd creatures with class levels, I'm finding the point at which they hit epic progression, and which parts of classes hit epic progression confusing...
A medusa cleric 15 has 21 class levels - 6 monster levels, 15 cleric levels. Does she stop receiving spell slots (the epic rules would suggest so), or does the spell level progression continue until hitting 20th class level?
I'm finding epic progression a little confusing... this is probably why I focus on low and mid level adventures.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ashavan
Epic starts at 20 HD, regardless of whether it comes from class HD or monster HD.
Actually, I think that is wrong. Epic does not begin once a creature (whether monster or pc) hits 20 HD. If that was the case, numerous monsters from the various Monster Manuals would have a much lower BAB and saves. In fact, dragons are prime examples. According to the Draconomicon, dragons could only take epic feats after they hit a certain age category (cannot remember offhand exactly).
In terms of when a monster receives feats and stat boosts, you use their HD. However, in terms of determining when, at least for monsters that can take class levels, you can use the epic progression (i.e., +1 BAB at odd levels, +1 saves at even levels) by using their total character levels (i.e., epic starts at 21st level).
Of course this is my interpretation of the rules, as best as I can determine. As always, you can use different rules and variants.
CB out.
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Personally, I don't begin implementing epic rules for classed NPCs (whether for monsters or regular races) until their class levels exceed 20. In this way, you don't have a 6th level fire giant (21 HD) taking epic feats at a rapid rate from his class.
Addendum: if the addition of class levels (or HD) put a creature into epic CR (21+), then I will consider giving them epic feats from their HD advancement. Thusly, I would consider giving the classed fire giant an epic feat at his 27th HD, when he has reached a CR 22 with 12 class levels, and would continue to do so at 30, 33, etc. Once he's got 36 HD (21st fighter), then he can take epic feats from his class, as well as his HD.
The medusa in question needs to get to 20th level as a sorcerer before she is affected by the epic level rules for spells progression even if she has a CR of 24 (since sorcerer is a non-associated class for medusas). Monsters without class levels never follow the epic progression rules for attack rolls and saving throws, regardless of hit dice. When they become eligible for epic feats and epic spells is also hazy, though it's generally assumed that any monster that is CR 21 or greater can start accumulating epic feats (in this Magagumo is right).
"Epic" status happens at 21 HD. However, a PC monster with a 21+ ECL and less than 20 HD is still subject to the epic experience table and epic treasure values.
Racial Hit Dice are not affected by epic status, except that they count towards qualifying for epic feats. In other words, base attack and base saving throws for racial hit dice are unaffected. This only comes into play if the monster in question has more than 20 racial hit dice. All class levels, once the creature has reached 21 Hit Dice (regardless of whether these are racial or class HD), are affected as in the ELH/DMG.
The section on epic base classes only applies if the character has 21+ levels in a single base class.
Hope this makes sense,
TK
Epic Progression on Base Attack Bonus and Saves begins with the 21st hit die, but only applies to class levels. A creature can begin taking epic feats with its 21st hit die, but it's rare due to the fact that most creatures other than outsiders will reach this point long before they become an epic level challenge.
Epic Progression on Class Abilities (for example, spells) begins with the 21st level in that class, or the 11th level for prestige classes. Thus, a 40th level character with 20 levels each in Wizard and Cleric is able to cast 9th level spells from both of his classes.
Edit: Dangit, Thanis!