Just ran my players through the start of this scenario last week.
I had 5 PCs all 18th level and the Juggernaut just ripped through them.
Is the CR for this - 18 - correct. Judging from the way it played out it felt like it was way overpowing for them.
Cheers
Even with that Rust Vulnerability? Seems like a pretty big Achilles Heel to me. Its saves weren't that good.
Polymorph fighter into a rust monster, load him up with protective magic and tackle the thing. Or let it bite you.
(And no, that's not metagaming. A metal construct attacks an 18th level party, the wizard oughta know about the potential for rust attacks. Alternately, you just run away and cast some divination spells to get some clues).
Hawklord wrote: Just ran my players through the start of this scenario last week.
I had 5 PCs all 18th level and the Juggernaut just ripped through them.
Is the CR for this - 18 - correct. Judging from the way it played out it felt like it was way overpowing for them.
Cheers
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hey Hawklord, any chance of a round for round summary of what happened and the make up of the party? Might establish whether the encounter is too powerful or the party didn't think it through.
I take it niether Rusting Grip or Polymorph/Shapechange was available to the party mage?
Reebo Kesh wrote:
I take it niether Rusting Grip or Polymorph/Shapechange was available to the party mage?
I think that may be the problem! The party mage was non-existant.
I had a Paladin, two Rogues, a Fighter and a Cleric all at 18th.
The Juggernaut used it's forcecage attack on the first round to trap 3 of them and then basically used it's breath weapon attacks to decimate them. They couldn't even get to the darn thing to hit it, with all it's breath weapons active every round it just took them apart.
In order to avoid a TPK I had to rule that after the cleric cast Wall of Stone to attempt to shield them from the breath attacks that the juggernaut having no INT score couldn't see them therefore they weren't there and stopped attacking.
That was very nice of you. Make sure your players give you cookies.
Forcecage can be a TPK spell quite easily if the PCs don't have access to some teleporting or other supernatural transport ability — which, by 18th level, they should.
- Those rogues should have Use Magic Device and wands of Dimension Door, or at least a scroll.
- The cleric could have cast Wind Walk on the entire party, and wafted everybody through the bars. Or cast Miracle to duplicate Teleport.
- The paladin (and fighters in general) are the worst off against Forcecage; this is why they badly need some form of wonderous item such as a Cloak of the Montebank or Helm of Teleportation by high levels, else they're toast against any savvy caster.
Keep in mind that there are traps in the Chambers that really call for teleportation magic; maybe this encounter will convince your players to seek some out.
I'd think using magic teleportation devices of one kind or another is really little more then a stop gap for an 18th level party. At low levels you can get around not having some kind of arcane caster but I'd think all high level adventures really presume your party has access to some major mojo.
This has nothing to do with the previous posts, but is the +8 on it's bite attack correct? the strength bonus alone is +14...
Mark Stephens wrote: This has nothing to do with the previous posts, but is the +8 on it's bite attack correct? the strength bonus alone is +14... That stat block has three unfortunate typos. The juggernaut's bite attack should be +40. (+33 base, +15 Str, –8 size).
It's Saves are off as well, unfortunately. They should be: Fort +13, Ref +15, Will +13
And finally, its AC is off. Should be 32, touch 8, flat-footed +30.
Thanks, I had recalculated the bite attack, but I forgot to take into account the size! Thanks again!! ; )
James Jacobs wrote: That stat block has three unfortunate typos. The juggernaut's bite attack should be +40. (+33 base, +15 Str, –8 size).
It's Saves are off as well, unfortunately. They should be: Fort +13, Ref +15, Will +13
And finally, its AC is off. Should be 32, touch 8, flat-footed +30.
James, since Maure Castle will be a continuing endeavor at Dungeon for while, would you guys a) consider creating a separate forum for it, and b) compile an errata listing to be made sticky in said forum (or at least provide a .pdf or something that lists the errata, even if you don't create a special forum for MC)?
I think the forum would be useful, especially as additional levels for MC are published: it would keep the MC discussion in one place, and easily findable (much like the AoW forum, etc.).
James Jacobs wrote: Mark Stephens wrote: This has nothing to do with the previous posts, but is the +8 on it's bite attack correct? the strength bonus alone is +14... That stat block has three unfortunate typos. The juggernaut's bite attack should be +40. (+33 base, +15 Str, –8 size).
It's Saves are off as well, unfortunately. They should be: Fort +13, Ref +15, Will +13
And finally, its AC is off. Should be 32, touch 8, flat-footed +30.
In Appendix 2 for Seven-Headed Juggernaut it says:
Armor Class: 34 (-4 size, +2 Dex, +34 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 32
Base Attack/Grapple: +33/+56
Attack: Bite +8 melee (2d8+22/18-20/x3)
Full Attack: Bite +8 melee (2d8+22/18-20/x3)
based on what you said what shold they be?
thanks
mike
grodog wrote: James, since Maure Castle will be a continuing endeavor at Dungeon for while, would you guys a) consider creating a separate forum for it, and b) compile an errata listing to be made sticky in said forum (or at least provide a .pdf or something that lists the errata, even if you don't create a special forum for MC)?
I think the forum would be useful, especially as additional levels for MC are published: it would keep the MC discussion in one place, and easily findable (much like the AoW forum, etc.).
This is a great idea! I'll run it by the web guys on Monday.
Thanks for making the new forum so quickly!
Now, how about that errata? :D :D :D
It might also be worthwhile to move MC posts from here into that forum, too.
Hey, Duke of the Web. Shouldn't this thread get moved over to the Maure Castle section?
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