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Does that weapons against evil even overcome DR/- that comes from adamantine armor?

Thanks everyone!

So 8 years later, I still have a question on this.

Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment.

DR Type Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent
cold iron/silver +3
adamantine* +4
alignment-based +5

I get this.

Here are my two questions:
1) Does any Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent ever overcome DR/B, DR/P, DR/S, etc? (Ie does my +3 Mace still lose 5 points of dmg vs the zombie I'm fighting)

2) Does any Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent ever overcome DR/-? (Does that enemy in adamantine full plate have DR/3 against the hits from my +4 longsword?)

Thanks everyone! Also, I hope there are some people still playing 1E who can answer this for me.

Thanks again Kailas! I had a feeling the imp should be considered 6th level as a base.

My question for the caster level wasn't actually about the any class levels. I was actually curious about the spell like abilities an imp can cast. Those are CL 6. I was curious if anyone thought that as the imp gains class levels if the CL for those spell like abilities should go up as is the case with Gnomish Magic. I think it would really only apply to Suggestion since Commune is already at CL 12 and the other half of the spells are constant/at will.

Also, any thoughts on the Bloodline power?

So I know this is a pretty old thread, but I’ve been thinking about this same idea and haven’t seen anyone else asking about it.

I think it stands that the base Imp should probably be considered 6th level because their Spell Like Abilities are treated as a 6th level caster. As the Imp levels up does that effective caster level go up too? Does it make a difference if the Imp takes levels in a caster class vs non-caster class?

Also, I wanted to hear if anyone had any thoughts on the Imp’s Bloodline powers if they did take an Imp cohort. They are already immune to fire and poison so if you take the Infernal Bloodline the second Bloodline power (for 3rd/9th level) is a waste. I might pitch to the DM the idea of substituting SR at level 3 and then increasing it 9th. Esp since more powerful devils have SR. Thoughts?

Thanks for the ideas Kailas. Dasrak, I appreciate the input, but I've seen a lot of posts about the fact they really should be separate pools.

My thought on the second one is about trying to separate the Channeling from the spell casting. I can see how the damage/healing wouldn't get better when I progress in a prestige class like MT, but I was hoping the HD I control would keep progressing like you had mention Kailas. Do you think it would be too OP if I combined the two feats or should they stay separated? I'm thinking about keeping the class requirement since I think my DM would want to see a reason why it should be based of character HD and not cleric/necro levels respectively. Any other suggestions on pre-reqs?

Any thoughts out there on this? Or has anyone else come up with any suggestions on how to get the arcane/divine pools combined?

Thanks!

Bumping this back up. Haha, hopefully I can get some insight from others. Thanks everyone!

Hey guys,

I'm playing a Necromancer that I plan to head towards the MT track. (I know people are going to say don't do it, but I've got my reasons.)

What I'm trying to pitch to my DM would be a feat that would allow me to combine my arcane and divine spell caster classes into the same HD pool I have to control undead. I agree that there are two different pools. Even if the HD totals end up being to an equal amount as a single caster class, they have much lower HD ceilings. It keeps a Necromancer from getting control of over some big skeletons/zombies. So here are my rough drafts:

Necromatic Theurgy
Preq: Theurgy (feat), Spell Focus (Necromancy), (maybe a required MT level?)

When determining the maximum number of Hit Dice of undead he can control with spells like Animate Undead, a character can combine all appropriate spell casting class levels.

I'm suggesting "spell casting class levels" for two reasons: 1) My necromancer is going to dip into Agent of the Grave and their Inspired Necromancy class feature counts their AotG class level twice 2) I didn't want to go with combined caster level because that would mean the MT caster level pool would grow twice as fast which seems a little OP.

Improved Necromatic Theurgy
Preq: Necromatic Theurgy, Theurgy (feat), Spell Focus (Necromancy), Command Undead, (def a required MT level - 7th level maybe?)

When determining the maximum number of Hit Dice of undead he can control with Command Undead feat, a character can combine all appropriate spell casting class levels.

It just seems crazy to me that if you prestige class as MT and are studying necromancy from the Divine AND Arcane that your Command Undead Feat would actually stall out in its power. I can see the Channel Energy dice not getting any stronger, but there should be a way to control more undead. Is that crazy?

Would love some feedback! Thanks!

Ok, so my wife is playing a Dhampir Snakebite Striker, and I'm trying to help her build it (I have waaaaaay more time on my hands, and well, I like the character building and she doesn't). The initial idea was to have a Blood drinking grappler, but that seemed really one dimensional. The SbS offered more opportunities with Feinting/SA, etc. I'd like people to take a look at the initial class/feat progression and tell me what they think.

1st - (SbS 1) Blood Drinker (SA 1d6)
2nd - (SbS 2) Improved Grapple
3rd - (SbS 3) Combat Expertise
4th - (SbS 3/Ftr 1) Improved Feint
5th - (SbS 4/Ftr 1) Two Weapon Feint
6th - (SbS 5/Ftr 1) Greater Feint
7th - (SbS 6/Ftr 1) Blood Feaster (SA 2d6)
8th - Assassin? She's thinking about it and there's an immediate SA boost up from 2d6 to 3d6
9th - (Sbs 7/Ftr 1/As 1) Greater Grapple

Ok, so I'm thinking she needs to stick with SbS until at least level 14 so that she get Opportunist at 13th and 2d6 Unarmed Dmg at 14th.

The other thing I was going to suggest was Pummeling Style at 10th and Pummeling Charge at 13th. And maybe Weapon Focus at 11th and Weapon Spec as the second 13th level feat.

Pummeling Charge w SbS just blew my mind. Feint while charging. If the feint works, target doesn't get DEX bonus until the next round, immediately Brawler Flurry (4 attacks, 1d10 dmg) with 4d6 SA per hit (right? or is that wrong?), and that's just the first attack round! If she wants to go with Weapon Focus/Spec, the attacks are only at a minus 1 and there's another 2 points of dmg per hit. And at that point, she can decide if she wants to feint/flurry or move onto grapple/bite.

On a semi-related note, I was going to suggest she use a cestus on one hand so one of her attacks she could apply poison, but then she would have both hands free for grappling. I've seen some discussion about cestus dmg vs unarmed strike dmg, and we'd probably just need to follow up with our DM about it.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Haha, I know this was a lot. Thanks!

Even though it's +1 hit/dmg? Yeah, the solo Dwarven Cavalier in a party of non-Dwarven adventurers wouldn't be doing so well. This is designed to be working with a group of Dwarves and the Cavalier having Leadership or something.

This guy would need to be with at least 10 Dwarves (+3 atk/dmg) to be effective. Throw into the mix that he would have some Teamwork feats to drop on those Dwarves (I imagine Shield Wall), and you have a handy little militia marching off to war.

I dislike Drill Instructor because it seems kind of silly to be sitting outside the BBEG's lair going through battle plans for 10 minutes before charging through the door.

I agree. Was it possibly written poorly? It currently seems like another use of the Tactician ability for a longer time at the cost of a challenge as well as opening up which teamwork feats are used. Those are nice benefits, but that drilling before charging in the door seems a little weak. What would make more sense is if you are supposed to Drill 10 min a day (for a week? month?), and then WHENEVER the Cavalier spends one of his challenge abilities, the allies get the team work ability for however long.

The point of a drill instructor is to keep practicing maneuvers over and over so that when the leader shouts the command word, the unit performs the maneuver on the spot. They don't cram for 10 minutes before battle and then get the benefit.

And the idea of practicing for 10 minutes before battle seems to lose sight of something most tacticians never underestimate--the element of surprise. For example:
Orc 1: You hear that outside?
Orc 2: Yeah, sounds like... militia exercises?
Orc 1: Shoot. You don't think they mean to attack us do you?
Orc 2: Yeah... Maybe we should wake up the ogre and break up their formation. How long have they been going?
Orc 1: About 5 minutes, I think.
Orc 2. Perfect.

And the Strategic Supremacy ability is useful only if the enemy has teamwork feats.

I REALLY wish the Strategist was more playable, but it seems impractical.

Glancing through the archetypes, the Honor Guard and MAYBE Strategist have some potential.

Hey everyone,

I posted this thread a little bit ago, but didn't get any response to my new edits. I'm not sure if restarting a thread is against msg board rules. If it is, I apologize. No harm intended. So I made a new Cavalier order and was hoping to get some feedback on the edits. At the end of it, I also explain why I went with what I did and why I think it makes sense and is balanced. Without further ado...

Order of the Hammer

A cavalier belonging to this order is devoted to the defense of Dwarves and destruction of Dwarven enemies. These cavaliers have all sorts of personalities, but they put the good of the Dwarves above their own. They might have very different views of how to best serve the Dwarven people, but if the enemies of the Dwarves see a line of Dwarven shields and hammers, there’s a good chance a Cavalier of the Hammer is leading them into battle.

Edicts
The cavalier must protect and advance the interests of the Dwarves. He must always come to the aid of a Dwarf in need and lead the charge against the enemies of the Dwarves. He cannot sit back when his fellow Dwarves are being hurt. He must pick up his hammer and attack.

Challenge
Whenever an Order of the Hammer cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made against the target of his challenge if the Cavalier is being cheered on by another Dwarf within 30 feet. The Dwarf has to be able to hear the Dwarves for this bonus to be in effect. This bonus lasts for 1 minute. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.

Skills
As skilled as Order of the Hammer cavaliers are, their comrades-in-arms and sometimes civilian Dwarves are wounded in battle. Heal is a class skill for them since they have learned to be battlefield medics when necessary. And like other Dwarves, they love tales and stories of their ancestors. They also understand the tactical importance of learning about historic battles so Knowledge (history) is a class skill.

Abilities
2nd level – War March. As a standard action, a Cavalier of the Hammer can strike his weapon against his shield in a marching rhythm which gives all allies within 60 feet of the cavalier a +1 moral bonus to attack and dmg rolls and a +2 morale bonus vs fear. The cavalier loses the AC bonus for his shield (as with a shield bash) since he is using his shield as a percussive instrument. This effect lasts for as long as the cavalier is striking his weapon against his shield and lasts 1 additional round for every two levels the cavalier possesses once the War March is no longer being struck.

For every five dwarves also striking their shields within 60 feet of the cavalier, there is an additional +1 to attack <and damage?> (max at +6) and the range of effect increases by 15 feet. The other Dwarves striking their shields also lose their shield AC bonus.

The cavalier can lead this War March once per day. This is a sonic effect and all allies must be able to hear it. This makes any stealth checks impossible since such an action reveals your presence very loudly.

8th level – Wary. Cavaliers of the Hammer are used to attacks made on merchant caravans and patrols, and they have developed a sixth sense for ambushes and traps. Cavaliers of the Hammer gain the Uncanny Dodge ability.

15th level – Moradin’s Retribution. At 15th level, the cavalier can take retribution on those who dare strike a fellow dwarf. Whenever an enemy makes a successful melee attack against the cavalier or an adjacent dwarven ally, the enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the cavalier. The cavalier receives a +2 moral bonus on the attack of opportunity. If the attack made by the enemy was a critical hit, the cavalier may treat the enemy as the target of his challenge for the attack of opportunity. The cavalier can use this ability once per round.

My thoughts:

With the challenge, there are a number of other similar challenges, and few have the restriction of needing a Dwarf in the party (likely 2 since the Cavalier doesn't count). So I think the tweak fixes it up.

War March, while it could look overpowered, should have these considerations:
1) Need for a lot of Dwarves. The highest bonuses are really unreachable except for actual time of war (hence the name), super high leadership score, or exceptional DM approval. How often will you see 30+ Dwarves marching around in a campaign? Esp those that would be marching to a sustained battle. In some ways, this is good for storming the gate, rallying the troops/merchant train after being ambushed, before two armies meet on the field of battle, etc. It won't overwhelm a longer dungeon crawl or the like.
2) This is a once a day and wears out relatively quickly. Can the cavalier keep the War March going? Yes, but if he chooses to powergame rather than enter melee to protect his Dwarven kin, then he has violated the edicts of his Order and loses his challenge ability for 24 hours.
3) He (and all the Dwarves that are adding the bonus) loses his/their shield bonus.
4) This makes the cavalier a true defender of the Dwarven people and rely on the community of Dwarves rather than be a solo adventurer/mercenary. This makes him a captain of the guard and not a soldier of fortune.
5) This method of inspiring also frees him from a CHA based ability. Which makes sense since this Cavalier will prob be a Dwarf.

Getting Uncanny Dodge at 8th level I don't think is too out of line. It does cover his butt a bit with the loss of his shield bonus. Considering he is a melee fighter and likely to wear Med or Heavy armor, he prob doesn't have a huge Dex bonus. I will come clean: I thought of this in order to prep this guy to easily step into the Stalwart Defender, which let's face it, is historically a Dwarven class. But if a Cavalier is going to go that route, he has to devote three feats to become a Stalwart Defender that he could have used on his mount. So what we have is a Cavalier who is not as focused on his riding abilities (which is about a good third of what Cavalier's are about). I think that is a fair trade off. This also makes him a little more Dwarven since most Dwarven strongholds don't have horses underground.

<Tangent, what mount would people recommend? The book said Giant Boars, but is that a Dire Boar? Either way, Dwarves aren't renowned for their cavalry. I realize the name of the class is the Cavalier and not the Tactician, but does that mean the Dwarves shouldn't be allowed to have a Battlefield Commander in their ranks?>

<Tangent from Tangent, I just found out about the Cavalier archetypes. Not sure if any of them are a good match for this Order though. Suggestions?>

And yeah, Moradin's retribution is pretty much a straight rip from other Orders. But it makes sense that a Dwarven Cavalier would be in the front lines, and if someone hurt an ally next to him that he would strike back. However, if anyone had a more creative suggestion for 15th lvl, I am all ears. (No wait, Dwarven Order... I'm all beard.)

Ok,

Here's the revisions I made as per some suggestions (really appreciate those).

Order of the Hammer

A cavalier belonging to this order is devoted to the defense of Dwarves and destruction of Dwarven enemies. These cavaliers have all sorts of personalities, but they put the good of the Dwarves above their own. They might have very different views of how to best serve the Dwarven people, but if the enemies of the Dwarves see a line of Dwarven shields and hammers, there’s a good chance a Cavalier of the Hammer is leading them into battle.

Edicts
The cavalier must protect and advance the interests of the Dwarves. He must always come to the aid of a Dwarf in need and lead the charge against the enemies of the Dwarves. He cannot sit back when his fellow Dwarves are being hurt. He must pick up his hammer and attack.

Challenge
Whenever an Order of the Hammer cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made against the target of his challenge if the Cavalier is being cheered on by another Dwarf within 30 feet. The Dwarf has to be able to hear the Dwarves for this bonus to be in effect. This bonus lasts for 1 minute. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.

Skills
As skilled as Order of the Hammer cavaliers are, their comrades-in-arms and sometimes civilian Dwarves are wounded in battle. Heal is a class skill for them since they have learnt to be battlefield medics when necessary. And like other Dwarves, they love tales and stories of their ancestors. They also understand the tactical importance of learning about historic battles. Knowledge (history) is a class skill as is Knowledge (religion) since most Cavaliers of the Hammer are devout in their worship of the Dwarven Gods.

Abilities
2nd level – War March. As a standard action, a Cavalier of the Hammer can strike his weapon against his shield in a marching rhythm which gives all allies within 60 feet of the cavalier a +1 moral bonus to attack and dmg rolls and a +2 morale bonus vs fear. The cavalier loses the AC bonus for his shield (as with a shield bash) since he is using his shield as a percussive instrument. This effect lasts for as long as the cavalier is striking his weapons against his shields and lasts 1 additional round for every two levels the cavalier possesses once the War March is no longer being struck.
For every five dwarves also striking their shields within 60 feet of the cavalier, there is an additional +1 to attack <and damage?> (max at +6) and the range of effect increases by 15 feet. The other Dwarves striking their shields also lose their shield AC bonus.
The cavalier can lead this War March once per day. This is a sonic effect and all allies must be able to hear it. This makes any stealth checks impossible since such an action reveals your presence very loudly.

8th level – Wary. Cavaliers of the Hammer are used to attacks made on merchant caravans and patrols, and they have developed a sixth sense for ambushes and traps. Cavaliers of the Hammer gain the Uncanny Dodge ability.

15th level – Moradin’s Retribution. At 15th level, the cavalier can take retribution on those who dare strike a fellow dwarf. Whenever an enemy makes a successful melee attack against the cavalier or an adjacent dwarven ally, the enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the cavalier. The cavalier receives a +2 moral bonus on the attack of opportunity. If the attack made by the enemy was a critical hit, the cavalier may treat the enemy as the target of his challenge for the attack of opportunity. The cavalier can use this ability once per round.

My thoughts:
With the challenge, there are a number of other similar challenges, and few have the restriction of needing a Dwarf in the party (likely 2 since the Cavalier doesn't count). So I think the tweak fixes it up.

War March, while it could look overpowered, should have these considerations:
1) Need for a lot of Dwarves. The highest bonuses are really unreachable except for actual time of war (hence the name), super high leadership score, or exceptional DM approval. How often will you see 30+ Dwarves marching around in a campaign? Esp those that would be marching to a sustained battle. In some ways, this good for storming the gate, rallying the troops/merchant train after being ambushed, before two armies meet on the field of battle, etc. It won't overwhelm a longer dungeon crawl or the like.
2) This is a once a day and wears out relatively quickly. Can the cavalier keep the War March going? Yes, but if he chooses to powergame rather than enter melee to protect his Dwarven kin, then he has violated the edicts of his Order and loses his challenge ability for 24 hours.
3) He (and all the Dwarves that are adding the bonus) loses his/their shield bonus.
4) This makes the cavalier a true defender of the Dwarven people and rely on the community of Dwarves rather than be a solo adventurer/mercenary. This makes him a captain of the guard and not a soldier of fortune.
5) This method of inspiring also frees him from a CHA based ability. Which makes sense since this Cavalier will prob be a Dwarf.

Getting Uncanny Dodge at 8th level I don't think is too out of line. It does cover his butt a bit with the loss of his shield bonus. Considering he is a melee fighter and likely to wear Med or Heavy armor, he prob doesn't have a huge Dex bonus. I will come clean: I thought of this in order to prep this guy to easily step into the Stalwart Defender, which let's face it, is historically a Dwarven class. But if a Cavalier is going to go that route, he has to devote three feats to become a Stalwart Defender that he could have used on his mount. So what we have is a Cavalier who is not as focused on his riding abilities (which is about a good third of what Cavalier's are about). I think that is a fair trade off. This also makes him a little more Dwarven since most Dwarven strongholds don't have horses underground.

<Tangent, what mount would people recommend? The book said Giant Boars, but is that a Dire Boar? Either way, Dwarves aren't renowned for their cavalry. I realize the name of the class is the Cavalier and not the Tactician, but does that mean the Dwarves shouldn't be allowed to have a Battlefield Commander in their ranks?>

<Tangent from Tangent, I just found out about the Cavalier archetypes. Not sure if any of them are a good match for this Order though. Suggestions?>

And yeah, Moradin's retribution is pretty much a straight rip from other Orders. But it makes sense that a Dwarven Cavalier would be in the front lines, and if someone hurt an ally next to him that he would strike back. However, if anyone had a more creative suggestion for 15th lvl, I am all ears. (No wait, Dwarven Order... I'm all beard.)

Humphry and Bart, thanks guys! lol, also I hope I don't come off as too defensive about this write up. :-)

I was on the verge of writing this huge response, but then I actually realized what you just said Dosgamer. If you are in Phalanx of people with this feat, you are probably going to get the decided advantage of not being flanked. Also if anyone tried to break through your line, they would be in danger of three (if not more) attacks of opportunity. So considering that you would probably be doubling your shield bonus (assuming there is some uniformity in equipment), getting "only" the benefit of one other shield makes sense. Glad I checked this post out before I started trying to argue why it should go the other way.

Also, for people looking to milk it, a savvy commander would have a few tower shields thrown into the mix to offer a stronger bonus to the line. I'm assuming that if a line of characters are benefiting from Shield Wall, they can pick the higher bonus being offered.

Hey guys, sorry for the WAY delayed response. (Been a silly couple of months.) Thanks for your thoughts! I still haven't sat down and thought about your suggestions, but they are good ones. I think I might try to craft a synthesis of your suggestions. Not sure what that's going to produce, but when I do I will put it up. Hope you guys will take a look at it when I do.

Hi everyone,

I've got a Dwarven Paladin (gasp!) and I plan on taking the Leadership feat at some point. With it, I was thinking about founding some sort of Dwarven military order, and figured it would play nicely with some Dwarven cavalier followers (maybe cohort). So I thought about using these abilities for the Dwarven cavalier Order: the Order of the Hammer.

Anyone have any suggestions or tweaks before I submit it to the DM? Is it unbalanced? Overpowered? Under powered? Thanks!

Order of the Hammer

A cavalier belonging to this order is devoted to the defense of Dwarves and destruction of Dwarven enemies. These cavaliers have all sorts of personalities, but they put the good of the Dwarves above their own. They might have very different views of how to best serve the Dwarven people, but if the enemies of the Dwarves see a line of Dwarven shields and hammers, there’s a good chance a cavalier of the Hammer is leading them into battle.

Edicts
The cavalier must protect and advance the interests of the Dwarves. He must always come to the aid of a Dwarf in need and lead the charge against the enemies of the Dwarves.

Challenge

+1 divine bonus to attacks made with hammers and any weapon with the “Dwarven” descriptor.

Skills
As skilled as Order of the Hammer cavaliers are, their comrades-in-arms and sometimes civilian Dwarves are wounded in battle. Heal is a class skill for them since they have learnt to be battlefield medics when necessary. And like other Dwarves, they love tales and stories of their ancestors. They also understand the tactical importance of learning about historic battles. Knowledge (history) is a class skill as is Knowledge (religion) since most Cavaliers of the Hammer are devout in their worship of the Dwarven Gods.

Abilities
2nd level – War March. When a Cavalier of the Hammer strikes his hammer against his shield in a marching rhythm, all Dwarven allies within hearing range gain a +1 moral bonus to attack and dmg rolls and an additional +1 for every two dwarves also striking their shields with a max at +6. This effect lasts for 1 round for every two levels the cavalier possesses. The cavalier can lead this war march once per day. This makes any stealth checks impossible since such an action reveals your presence very loudly.

8th level – Wary. Cavaliers of the Hammer are used to attacks made on merchant caravans and patrols, and they have developed a sixth sense for ambushes and traps. Cavaliers of the Hammer gain the Uncanny Dodge ability.

15th level – Moradin’s Retribution. At 15th level, the cavalier can take retribution on those who dare strike a fellow dwarf. Whenever an enemy makes a successful melee attack against the cavalier or an adjacent dwarven ally, the enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the cavalier. The cavalier receives a +2 moral bonus on the attack of opportunity. If the attack made by the enemy was a critical hit, the cavalier may treat the enemy as the target of his challenge for the attack of opportunity. The cavalier can use this ability once per round.