I'm going to be starting up a CotCT campaign within the next few months and I was wondering if any PFS players/GMs had a list of PFS Scenarios (any season) that are situated in and around Korvosa, Kaer Maga, and anywhere in between that I can add in to supplement a group that may tend to wander beyond the adventure parameters or as a way to help beef up the group prior to entering Scarwall.
I know I can convert pretty much any one of them to make them fit, but I'm looking for some tidbits of flavor that are hopefully found in these area-specific PFS scenarios. Thanks all!
Well that's a relief as I started to think I was going crazy over how the map was set up vs. how it was described. I think I'll just add a few details to how the keep should look just for the off-chance my party decides to be a little more daring.
I'll take a look through the boards on my days off and see what advice I can take from others' experience to better understand and implement into my game. Thanks!
As much as I'd love to sift through everyone's posts this evening, I have an early day at work tomorrow, and I have a map question.
I downloaded Fortress of the Nail today, and immediately got stuck on the description of A1.
After the flavor text, it goes on to say that new people arriving are led to the north door, while those exiting are coming from the south door. Easy enough, except in the map given on page 6, there's a wall (or what appears to me as one) blocking both the northern tower door and the northern door itself. So if I'm in character and reach the large gate and am looking east, all I'm going to see is the door immediately to my right, leading to the southern tower, and the door right next to the tower on the east wall. The description continues, citing that each of these 'small' chambers have second doors to them leading to a larger room. I don't see any small chamber or a second room with a second door here.
Am I missing something in the description here? Physically there are only 2 doors leading out of the room that has the main gain: one to the southern tower, and one to the southern large room. Is the 'wall' in that gate room just there to highlight the roof from the overview map right next to it? If so, where are these 'small' rooms with a second door? And if people are entering through the north door, why aren't there any exits aside from heading up the north tower and then back around to A2?
I just want to run this as a little side adventure for my Curse of the Crimson Throne/Council of Thieves game, and that map peeves me off, lol. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
As we left off, Vorka had just gained some space on Chuffy after failing to do any noticeable damage to Chuffy’s face and Reta was in a hurting way having her head still stuck between a couple steps leading up to the middeck area of the ship.
Mogmurch, seething with ineptitude from his previous miss wide-right with his first flask of acid, draws another one and with a gleeful squeal, moves closer to the dog that is threatening Chuffy and douses them both with acid.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the ship, Poog gives up on aiding Reta, digs through his pack to find the Dragon Brew Gourd he won for besting Squealy Nord the night before and drinks it quickly, despite the horrible indigestion.
Chuffy quickly stabs into the dog’s bubbling flesh with the Gorge of Gluttons, and with a final yelp, it falls in a heap to the slick boards of the main deck.
As Reta tries to squeeze the rest of the way through the steps leading up to middeck, Vorka retrieves a spider from her spell component pouch and eats it, then, much to everyone’s amazement, climbs the aft mast, much like a baby goblin would climb the bars of its cage.
Mogmurch quickly moves up and throw a bomb straight up at Vorka, but his arm strength only carries it a short distance before it lands on the deck in between him and Chuffy, singeing both. Hearing the commotion, Poog again attempts to help Reta but with his indigestion acting up, isn’t able to be of much assistance.
Chuffy, having taken more damage from his own party than any of his opponents, digs through his pack and drinks a healing potion, turning his chemical-burned and charged skin a relatively fresh shade of lime green.
With a sudden slurping sound, Reta propels herself through the steps and lands on the fresh corpse of the dog she had slain only moments before.
Vorka, still standing precariously on the mast, throws a ball of fire at Chuffy, but misses, and retreats to the relative protection of the aft crow’s nest above.
As if on cue, Mogmurch throws a bomb straight up into the crow’s nest, landing a direct hit on Vorka! Poog, having moved between the steps and the main cabin, heads to the open doorway only to be grabbed by the tongue of a giant frog! Chuffy, standing nearby, slashes at the appendage with the Gorge of Gluttons, scoring a hit as Reta stands up and retrieves her own potion of spider climb from her pack. Above, Vorka begins casting a very complicated spell of certain doom.
Mogmurch, feeling confident in his range to Vorka above, lobs an alchemist’s fire, scoring another direct hit, and causing Vorka to miscast her terrible spell of certain doom. Below, Poog unleashes the fury of the Dragon Brew Gourd, burning the giant frog to a crisp. Reta drinks her potion of spider climb and begins her ascent of the aft mast in pursuit of the ever-elusive cannibal, who screams something about ‘You killed Lord Longtung!” down at Poog, and throws another ball of fire at Reta, scoring a hit on her enlarged head and quickly scampers across the rigging to the crow’s nest amidships.
Quickly, both Mogmurch and Poog race each other up the stairs to middeck, waiting for Vorka to fall. Chuffy, peers into the main cabin and quickly notices a red chest at the back of the room, beyond the remains of the charred frog. He moves to the chest and opens it, giving himself a high five as he examines dozens of fireworks crammed into the chest! He grabs seven skyrockets for himself and plans his next move. Reta, seeing her quarry slipping away climbs into the aft crow’s nest and almost makes it all the way across the rigging to the other one which is now holding Vorka all the while screaming ‘Hela me! Heal me!’ to anyone who will listen. Vorka, on cue, quickly heals herself via a spell and retreats to the roof of galley.
Mogmurch, inspired by Vorka’s elusiveness gets caught up in the moment and yells to her ‘Marry me!’ as both he and Poog continue their race up another flight of steps to the top of the galley, followed eventually by Chuffy. Reta is able to make her way across the last bit of rigging, still screaming for someone to heal her, but is unable to land a wild swing in Vorka’s general direction, but when Vorka launches herself off the side of the galley and down along the outer wall, is able to take a bite out of Vorka’s side with her dogslicer.
Just as Mogmurch reaches the top of the galley, he immediately turns around and runs back down to the middeck after seeing Vorka slip over the side, nearly bowling over Poog in the process and almost knocking Chuffy off the stairs leading up to the top of the galley. Poog finally heeds Reta’s wishes and casts a healing spell on her and waits for Vorka to show back up.
Chuffy’s intuition deems that a quick jump to the main deck from the level above is the best course of action, but mistimes his leap, overshooting the main deck and landing prone in the thick mud below. Reta runs over the edge of the galley and takes another swipe out of Vorka as they both hang on the vertical surface of the galley wall. Vorka, again fleeing the rabid dance of death that is Reta, takes a horrible shot to her back that leaves her fatigued. Regardless, she moves a short distance away, dangling upside down from the bottom of the galley floor that overhangs the main deck and pulls a potion from her belt.
Mogmurch continues storming down the stairs to the main deck and back the way he initially came in hopes of getting a clear shot at Vorka. Far above, Poog moves down the stairs to the middeck and opens the galley door, gazing upon a room straight out of a nightmare and right down the nose of a much larger dog. This blood-stained chamber of horror is covered in various fetishes made of animal and goblin bones, and more hang down from the ceiling. At the far end of the room bubbles a cauldron full of a thick, grey soup. Next to the cauldron is a very damp bag, filled to near bursting, and sitting in the middle of the room is a long table surrounded by a whole family of skeletal goblins, held in place with twine and reeds.
Far below, Chuffy extricates himself from a muddy doom and slowly makes his way back to the bow of the ship and the gangplank leading to the main deck. Reta moves in with another wild swing, but misses badly as she’s not accustomed to fighting upside down. As Vorka moves away, however, Reta is again able to connect with a short slice across Vorka’s stomach. Vorka moves slowly across the bottom of the galley and back up the side.
Finally seeing his chance, Mogmurch hastily prepares his last bomb and throws it at Vorka. Unfortunately for him, he prepared the bomb wrong and as he winds up to throw it up at the cannibal, it explodes in a burst of icy coldness, as opposed to the fiery doom he expected to visit upon her. He collapses to the deck.
Meanwhile, in the galley, Poog vomits a gout of flame at the large dog in front of him, half intentional and half the result of witnessing the atrocities of this filthy room. In the mud below, Chuffy moves to the bottom of the gangplank and retrieves a tindertwig, ready to light a skyrocket at Vorka. Above, Reta moves down the wall to assist (literally) Mogmurch with what she deems to be a suppository of cure light wounds.
The large dog, whom Vorka has named ‘Cuddles,’ takes a bite out of Poog after shaking off the effects of the first ball of fire that engulfed it. Vorka, seeing a helpless Mogmurch throws a ball of flame down upon him, thawing him out some and continues up to the top of the galley again.
Poog, still somewhat nauseated by the scene presented before him, vomits his final breath of flame at Cuddles, turning the dog into an extra crispy slab of meat and surprises himself with a fiery burst of flatulence for good measure. Seeing his opportunity to make big fire with a skyrocket vanish as Vorka crests the top of the galley, Chuffy ascends the gangplank just in time to see Reta pull down Mogmurch’s pants and administer the suppository of healing from her pack. Chuffy is also taken aback by the full frontal monstrosity that is Mogmurch’s 4” member (complete with miniature skull helmet and eye patch). High above, Vorka moves to find Poog all alone at the doorway to the galley but fails to hit him with a fatal ball of fire, as the flame she is holding winks out of existence.
After regaining consciousness, Mogmurch, still prone on the main deck retrieves his healing extract and quaffs it. Sensing imminent peril with a fearsome cannibal looming high above him, Poog pulls out his healing wand and hits himself over the head with it, feeling both dizzy and good at the same time.
Chuffy, hearing the commotion above, quickly moves to the aft of the ship via the way Reta initially went. As he attempts to heroically swing around the support beam and onto the stairway going up, the mud on his hands causes him to lose his grip as he tumbles back down into the mud below.
Reta, smiling down in satisfaction regarding her healing prowess and quick thinking, runs up the support beam and makes it up to the top of the galley just in time to see Vorka drink another potion as her wounds grow visibly lighter.
After doing a quick check to see if he’s ok, Mogmurch removes the fully spent suppository of healing, pulls his pants up and stows the empty bottle in his pack for future use. Poog quickly bashes himself over the head with his healing wand again as Chuffy fails to make any progress in climbing the side of the ship to free himself from the knee-deep mud below. Vorka, sensing danger in the form of a swollen-headed Reta coming from behind, moves away slightly and draws forth yet another potion from her belt.
Mogmurch finally regains his footing on the main deck and retrieves a tanglefoot bag from his pack. Poog again spends another charge of his healing wand by bashing himself over the head with it in hopes of making it work better. Chuffy makes it almost to the bow of the ship when he spies Vorka literally standing on the side of the galley wall closest to him, as Reta takes another swing at the cannibal, wounding her again. Vorka drinks the last of her healing potions and prepares to unleash certain doom again.
Mogmurch runs around to the back of the ship as Poog puts his wand away and draws his last javelin, staring straight ahead at Vorka who lets another potion bottle fall to the main deck. Chuffy moves back away from the ship and lights his skyrocket. Vorka moves slightly away from Reta, who misses with another wild swing that almost sends her tumbling to the deck below and throws a ball of light into the face of Poog, who just so happened to blink at the most opportune moment, spoiling the effect.
Mogmurch stomps up to the middeck behind Poog and readies this tanglefoot bag as Poog unleashes a particularly lackluster burning hands spell upon Vorka, a gift straight from Zarongel. Chuffy’s skyrocket flies true, however, slamming into the side of the galley deafening Reta who only begins to yell louder, and blinding both Poog and Vorka completely, all of which are burned from the surprise explosion from below. Reta, screaming at everyone and wondering why no one is talking to her, swings wildly at the blinded cannibal, but misses.
Seeing the massive explosion from a safe distance away, Mogmurch takes it as a sign from the gods to unleash is alchemical goodness within his tanglefoot bag. His aim is true for a change and Vorka is rooted in place with a strange gooey mess. Poog randomly throws his last javelin, and as if the hand of Zarongel guided him, struck true, and the cannibal hangs limply from the alchemical glue shooter. Below, Chuffy pulls out another skyrocket and yells to Reta to get out of the way, but of course, she can’t hear anything besides herself screaming at everyone else. Reta takes another bite out of Vorka just as her head clears and hears Chuffy screaming at her to move, prompting her to move to the middeck next to Poog.
Mogmurch, emboldened by his luck with the tanglefoot bag, pulls out his last alchemist’s fire and scores another brutal hit on the unconscious Vorka. Poog blinks away the bright lights and pulls out his wand to heal himself again with a quick, one-handed bash over the head. Reta, having followed Chuffy’s instructions to move, is disappointed when nothing happens so moves back in to attack Vorka. As soon as she does, however, Chuffy’s second skyrocket blows a hole in Vorka’s chest and the residual blast knocks Reta unconscious as well.
Over the next few seconds, Vorka’s body continues to burn with alchemist’s fire as Poog administers healing via his wand to Reta until she regains consciousness. The group then proceeds around the ship to ensure everything is dead, Chuffy expertly dissecting the horse with the Gorge of Gluttons and Reta slashing into Vorka ‘just to make sure’ before pulling one last potion from Vorka’s belt. Poog finally pays his god tribute by ensuring the large dog in the galley is dead and cutting off one of his front paws as a trophy. Mogmurch, seeing an opportunity to gain yet another pouch to hold alchemical goodies, heads down to the dead horse in search for a scrotum.
As the rest of the group makes their way to the main deck’s cabin where the charred remains of Vorka’s giant frog companion lay alongside oodles and oodles of shinies (mostly broken but still shiny), Poog’s stomach, having been emptied several times during the course of the day due to the hangover he’s been suffering, gets the better of him as he stands over the bubbling cauldron in the galley. Taking a quick bite, he decides the stew isn’t half bad, kicks the bulging, moist sack next to the cauldron, and takes it with him back down to meet with the others.
Both Mogmurch and Chuffy scour the main cabin for shinies after procuring the rest of the fireworks from the chest, and come away with a shiny silver-and-jade lantern made to look like a coiled dragon, a dozen odd-shaped metal ‘stars’ that apparently haven’t lost their edge, an ivory and gold inlaid fan depicting a strange lizard that looks suspiciously like he wants to sell you insurance (with a crude map drawn on the reverse side showing the Brinestump Swamp, much like the map found in Scribbleface’s hut did), and an oddly long hairpin with a red pearl on one end. Once Poog finds his way down to the main cabin, the moist bag bouncing along behind him, he uses the power of Zarongel to detect any magical auras in the room and quickly finds a wand and a potion in a crystal, heart-shaped vial among the other treasures radiate magic. Poog is able to discern with the help of Zarongel that the wand actually creates food and water when prompted (although there doesn’t seem to be any necessity to banging the wand over the user’s head, much to his chagrin) and when Reta presents the potion she pulled off of Vorka (who still hangs plastered to the galley wall above), Mogmurch is able to identify it as a potion of barkskin, granting the imbiber with a tough, bark-like coating on the skin. Neither Mogmurch or Poog can tell what the crystal, heart-shaped vial does, so Poog elects to drink it. Upon doing so, he clutches his chest, goes to one knee, and looks up into the most beautiful eyes he has ever seen: those of Chuffy.
The group of heroes make their way back to Licktoad Village, Reta leading the way, followed by Chuffy and Poog, who seems completely enamored with the pustular little rogue, while Mogmurch watches it all from behind. As Chuffy swats away Poog’s groping hands and offer to be ‘healed,’ he runs into the back of Reta, who has stopped in the middle of the path, her larger, swollen head cocked to the side. She turns back to Chuffy and yells at him ‘GO AROUND!’
Obligingly Chuffy does, as this could be his chance to get away from the sexual advances of the creepy priest and show off his astute toughness by being the first of the heroes to enter the village AND be carrying all the fireworks. Yes, the glory will be great!
Unfortunately, Chuffy’s memory is all-too short and he quickly finds himself entangled in a large web that he didn’t notice strung across two large trees. Despite his cries for help, Reta and Mogmurch take the fireworks out of his pack and proceed back to the village, giving the copse of trees a wide berth. Almost fittingly, Poog remains close behind Chuffy to lend any ‘assistance’ to the entangled rogue. The last thing the two goblins hear as they make their way back to the village with the fireworks is the tell-tale sound of a flute being played lightly to the tune of ‘Dueling Flutists’ (a favorite among the more lonely goblins of the Licktoad Tribe) and a small whimper accompanied by the ripping of pants-cloth.
After recently ousting a member of their tribe for performing the hideous ritual of writing things down (as a history of the Licktoad Tribe, no less!), a secret stash of fireworks and a map leading to more were located in the writer-downer’s hut (forever known today as Scribbleface).
His Mighty Girthness, Chief Rendwattle Gutwad called forth the tribes four greatest heroes and presented them with a mission: follow Scribbleface’s map to a shipwreck near the coast of the Brinestump Swamp and come back with the rest of the fireworks!
The four heroes: Reta Bigbad, a loud-mouthed and obnoxious creature with an over-sized head; Chuffy Lickwound, a goblin preferring to lurk in the shadows, although taking great pride in the amount of pus he can squeeze from the many pustular pimples and boils that cover his entire body; Poog of Zarongel, a priest just trying to live up to his god’s values but generally failing miserably; and Mogmurch, an overly-excited 10-year old who loves nothing more than blowing things up; were all graciously allowed to sit in the dirt in front of Chief Gutwad’s Teeter Chair, and were outright shocked when he spoke directly to them rather than through his chief advisor, Slorb.
The mission was very simple: follow the map to the old shipwreck and return to the goblin village. Obvious perils along the way, such as Lotslegs Eat Goblin Babies Many and Vorka, the terrifying cannibalistic goblin among many others. That night, the Licktoad tribe would celebrate with a huge bonfire to help burn away any remaining bad luck caused by Scribbleface’s debauchery, and also give the heroes a proper going away party, filled with lots of drinking and dares aimed at seeing if these, in fact, WERE the goblin heroes most likely to succeed in getting back these fireworks.
Spoiler:
The festivities began when several goblins brought Chief Gutwad (still perched atop the Teeter Chair) out of the Moot House and placed him, chair and all, near the pile of wood that was to be the bonfire. In dramatic fashion, Chief Gutwad lit one of the fireworks taken from Scribbleface’s hut (a particularly nasty one called a Desnan candle) and fired it at the large pile of wood, officially starting the festivities.
Early in the party, the Chief orders several goblins to roll out barrels of fermenting cider apples, which the heroes eagerly partake in (although Poog proves himself a little bit of a lightweight and doesn’t feel very good after eating a couple). This does not stop him from taking part in (along with the rest of the heroes) in the first of the evening’s grand dares: Dancing with Squealy Nord.
Dare 1: Dance with Squealy Nord
Everyone knows that Squealy Nord is a terror to behold. In fact, Squealy Nord is confined to a 10-foot deep pit near the center of the village (along with the baby cages) and is renown throughout the village as loving the taste of goblin flesh. The first dare is quite simple: whoever can last a mere 18 seconds riding on the back of Squealy Nord will be awarded with a special prize from the Chief’s own stash of goodies.
Reta was the first to attempt this dare, and would have succeeded except for a sharp turn made by Squealy Nord and the immense size of Reta’s head that caused her to careen off the evil boar and land in the muck below, much to the tribes delight.
Second up was Chuffy Lickwound, who was quickly tossed onto Squealy Nord who was almost immediately released from the narrow gated area where he begins the dare and was summarily shot off, landing in a thick layer of fecal matter directly behind the bucking pig.
Third, Mogmurch and his crazy skull helmet, spectacles, and eye patch gave it a go. Just as he was being lowered onto the pig’s back, however, one of the goblins got over-excited and released Squealy Nord, and Mogmurch landed face-down in the muck created by the pig mucking around in its own droppings.
Lastly, Poog (still feeling horribly under the weather from eating so many of the fermented cider apples) was drug over to where he was quickly dropped upon the back of Squealy Nord. The pig was set loose and by the divine grace of Zarongel himself (although the sticky vomit that was covering the front of Poog’s shirt helped a bit), Poog managed to stay on for the full 18 seconds and was rewarded by Chief Gutwad with a Dragon Brew Gourd, his favorite item of loot.
Dare 2: Eat a Bag of Slugs Real Quick
Not wanting to be outdone by Poog, Chuffy stepped right up when the second challenge was announced. In order to succeed, Chuffy would need to eat FIVE bull slugs in a minute or less. Bull slugs are the size of sausages, exude quite a bit of slime, wriggle about, taste of rotten fish, and let out a little squeal every time you bite into one. Chuffy elected not to spit out the slugs’ mildly poisonous slime bladder and try to cram in as many slugs as he could possibly do in a minute. Chuffy’s intestinal fortitude allowed him to finish the slugs with only a minor case of indigestion and an odd side-effect of having a raging erection the rest of the evening. Impressed with the hero’s culinary might, Chief Gutwad loaned Chuffy his favorite item, the Gorge of Gluttons.
Dare 3: Hide or Get Clubbed
A little sore after her failed attempt to break the evil creature called Squealy Nord, Reta stepped up to play a nice game of Hide or Get Clubbed. Giving the other goblins a count to 10 (although most of them stopped at around 2, the extent of most goblin counting), Reta cunningly hid among the mangrove trees near the edge of the Licktoad camp. Luckily, only one goblin managed to come snooping around her way, and after a quick verbal exchange between them (“Are you hiding over here?” and “No!”), Reta was declared the winner and received Chief Gutwad’s favorite item: the mystical Ring That Lets You Climb Real Good.
Dare 4: The Rusty Earbiter
The final dare of the evening fell to poor Mogmurch, still covered in pig excrement and trying in vain to clean off his spectacles. After the typical number of slashed fingers and stabbed legs inflicted upon the half-dozen goblins that rolled the Rusty Earbiter out from behind the Moot House, the rest of the tribe waited in anticipation of what could be a very bloody and drawn-out death while being stuck inside this infernal contraption. Amid chants of encouragement for the Rusty Earbiter, broken up occasionally by the sound of Poog vomiting all over himself and others, disaster almost struck Mogmurch as he got stuck about halfway through the Rusty Earbiter. Taking care to extract himself mostly intact, Mogmurch took his time (so much time that by the time he exited, no one was left to watch him as everyone was too busy throwing more wood on the fire and eating fermented cider apples) and finally escaped the infernal contraption made by the half-insane tinker that was last seen being carried off by a large eagle after his first attempt at using a new bird-attracting hat.
Once everyone realized that Mogmurch was actually out of the Rusty Earbiter mostly intact, the Chief rewarded him with a loan of his most prized possession: the Chief’s Personal Very Useful Robe That Is Useful! Upon inspection, only a handful of patches remained on the robes, consisting of a ladder, a three-legged turtle, a horseshoe, and a bullhorn.
Setting out the next morning
Although Poog had seen better days, and the minor cuts about Mogmurch’s head and shoulders were of minor concern (since Poog had healed him the night before, Mogmurch was disappointed that there wouldn’t be any good scarring), the four heroes set out to the north in search of this shipwreck and the fireworks within.
Only a few hours of following the creek toward the coast, the trees began to become quite thick, prompting Reta to cock her head to the side and stare at something. Poog, not paying attention, bumped into her from behind. “Go around” was her curt reply and Poog stepped directly into a huge spider web that was strung up from tree to tree.
Lotslegs Eat Goblin Babies Many
The webs were from none other than the terror of this part of the swamp: the giant spider known as Lotslegs Eat Goblin Babies Many. Unfortunately for the heroes, Mogmurch and Reta were the only one to spot the spider slinking amongst the tree tops and was able to ready a quick bomb to hopefully fend off the terrifying beast. Lotslegs attempted to root Reta in place with a well-placed gob of webbing, although miscalculated her actual size due to her rather abnormally large head. Reta charged the tree in an attempt to scare the tree enough to tip it over while Mogmurch launched his hastily created bomb at the treetop. The treetop exploded in flames, as did Lotslegs who didn’t waste any time fleeing back to its lair in order to lick its wounds (no pun intended, Chuffy).
The group still had to deal with the entangled mess that Poog had wandered into, and after several tense minutes, both Chuffy and Mogmurch were able to assist Poog in extricating himself by pulling really hard on his ears as Reta chopped vainly at the sticky webbing, almost losing her weapon in the process.
The danger averted, the heroes pressed on, giving the webbed stand of trees a wide berth and keeping an eye out for a somewhat crispy giant spider.
The Old Shipwreck
Upon breaking through a dense stand of vines and trees, the heroes finally catch a glimpse of smoke on the horizon. Minutes later, they find the source: a chimney extending from an odd-shaped structure at the very top of an old shipwreck, somehow moored inside a fenced in area with barely any water to speak of.
Entering the gate, the heroes find the ground a churned up muddy mess, and as they begin mucking their way to the front gangplank, they hear the distinctive snort of a horse and see it charging around from the tail end of the ship straight at them! Soon, barking dogs join a chorus of terror as the heroes find themselves in a fight for their lives.
Mogmurch quickly (as quick as the knee-deep mud allows) makes it to the bottom of the gangplank while the horse moves in. Poog uses his gift from Zarongel to speak with the animal who simply replies with an eerily goblin-esque saying: ‘YOU BE FEWD!’ Chuffy moves to intercept the horse, neglecting to draw the mighty Gorge of Gluttons he received from eating all those delicious slugs the night before. Reta also moves toward the horse in hopes of having someone throw her atop it so she could ride it.
Mogmurch finally makes it up on the deck, not noticing a vine that wiggled itself loose as he ascended the gangplank. The horse finally enters melee from across the open area as Poog unleashes a fire bolt at the creature, scoring a hit (another boon from Zarongel). Chuffy moves into position and draws the Gorge of Gluttons while Reta engages the horse and deals a solid hit with her dogslicer.
Mogmurch digs through his pack and finds a vial of alchemist’s fire and throws it at the horse below, scoring a direct hit. The horse (a gaunt thing that is obviously neglected) misses its attacks toward Reta. Poog wisely throws a javelin into melee combat, missing everyone by a mile. Chuffy attempts to sneak behind the horse, and is lucky to evade the horse’s flailing hooves. Reta winds up and drops the horse, but that’s just when everyone hears a dog barking coming from above on the ship.
Mogmurch’s ‘on a boat’ dance is interrupted when a large muddy ball swings down from a vine attached somewhere from above. Upon further inspection he deduces that it is, in fact, a wasp’s nest. Both Poog and Chuffy make their way through the deep mud to the bottom of the gangplank while Reta climbs atop the horse. Near the back of the boat, several of the heroes hear more growls and some rattling of chains.
Mogmurch does what any goblin would do and tosses the wasp nest off the side of the boat…right into the waiting hands of Poog. Poog quickly tosses the wasp nest to Rita, but misses badly. As the nest breaks open, Reta is covered in wasps, stinging her several times and causing her head to swell up into preposterous proportions. Chuffy ascends the gangplank out of harm’s way and quickly Reta escapes the confines of the wasp swarm to join her two comrades above decks. The heroes hear more growling and barking and a distinctive snap of a chain breaking somewhere above.
Unbeknownst to the heroes (but knownst to us), all the racket above decks has awoken something terrible in the main cabin of the ship: the cannibal goblin, Vorka.
Mogmurch pulls out an acid flask from his pack and takes off down one side of the main deck. Poog takes the opposite side that Mogmurch took, as does Chuffy. Reta’s head swells even larger due to the wasp venom flowing through her veins and takes off after the other two goblins, pushing past them but in her haste, got her head stuck between the rungs of a ladder that leads up to the next deck. A chained dog on the same level as the heroes attacks the now mostly-helpless Reta, who continues to spurt out curses like they’re going out of style. Another dog bounds down the stairs from the deck above and also attempts to bite at Reta, but her position behind mostly behind the steps (aside from her swelling head) provides her with some cover. The door to the main cabin opens and out steps a sinister-looking goblin, sharpened teeth and claws, wearing an odd-shaped wide-brimmed hat with slots cut into hit, allowing her large ears to protrude at odd angles. In one hand she holds a potion. Vorka demands to know what is going on here and drinks a potion.
Mogmurch sticks to the shadows and peeks around the corner to see Vorka wearing a blood-stained apron and holding an empty potion bottle. Chuffy backtracks after seeing that his current path is blocked by Reta and her fat head as well as Poog. Poog attempts to help Reta extract herself from the staircase but Reta only sees red and attacks the chained up dog, actually dropping it to the deck in a bloody heap. The other dog is still having a hard time getting a clean shot at Reta and misses another bite. Vorka begins casting a spell as a naked flame springs into life from her open palm. She reaches to her belt and retrieves a Desnan candle and cackles maniacally.
Springing around the corner, Mogmurch flings his vial of acid at Vorka, but bounces off the mast, splashing harmlessly off to the right. Poog still tries to help Reta extricate herself, but to no avail. Chuffy score a wicked hit on Vorka, scarring her deeply across the face. This does nothing to add to her already frightful appearance. Reta, still stuck in the stairs almost loses her weapon in a vain attempt to attack the unchained dog. In return, the dog sees its opening, biting Reta and moving away to easier prey out in the open on the main deck. Vorka attempts to grab Chuffy by the face with her flaming hand, but he deftly dodges away. She backtracks out of range and prepares her next move.
I had forgotten about the Frenzys own -2. I was only refering to the TWF -2.
Regardless, this does not appear to have much to do with PF.
The Whirling Frenzy really does not mix well with the new Barbarian rage and I would discourage any GM from allowing it.
Also bear in mind that all extra attacks no matter the source do not stack any more, so you could not benefit (in PF) from hasting while using a Whirling Frenzy.
My oppinion at least is that you should be very carefull before mixing old 3.5 bagage into PF. I think the Whirling Frenzy option was a very powerful option and a mistake to begin with.
We're not converted over to Pathfinder yet. Well I am, but in the campaign I'm playing in where this came up, we're still solely in 3.5. I just had no other idea where to go for any insights regarding this in-game issue. I do agree that the whirling frenzy rage option is pretty scary. I do love the new barbarian rage powers in PF though, even more than WF.
I think you're entirely missing what I'm trying to do. If I'm reading what you're saying correctly, you think I want to toss in the larger attack directly in the middle of my full round attack. No, I don't. I wish to take a penalty on all my attacks, in accordance with the TWF rules and feat. This means I'm already taking a -2 on both my first two attacks as a double weapon, AND an additional -2 on my larger attack at the end of the full attack action. Since I am granted an extra attack every round I rage, I would have 3 attacks per round. It seems like you're still thinking I can only get 2 attacks per round regardless of this bonus due to the whirling frenzy rage variant while using a double weapon, which is an error on your...
Not quite.
I was not at all talking about the extra attack at this point.
Only about the TWF rule. You have made a good argument for your cause, but I am still not convinced on which interpretation is the "most correct"
My parting point (for the 3rd attack), is derived from the general rules governing extra attacks granted by special and magical abilities. They are not set in stone but are refered to under the Haste spell and the Speed special weapon ability.
quote PRPG p. 470. wrote:
Speed: When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a
speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack
uses the wielder’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers
appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative
with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)
From this one can argue about what is meant by ...any modifiers
appropriate to the situation...
I am tempted to allow two handed wielding on the bonus attack (only), but if you allow this there is no logic in imposing the -2 to hit from TWF on that attack. For the regular attacks I maintain that the -2 to hit and x1/x½ str. mod. still apply no matter what.
There is SOME logic regarding giving the extra attack the -2 penalty, as I will quote the Whirling Frenzy entry from page 66 of Unearthed Arcana: While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, BUT this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does EACH OTHER attack made that round. Now that the TWF feat gives me a reduction in my penalty, I'll still take an additional -2 for the double weapon attacks, meaning my first attack (the double) would be at -4/-4 (with x1 and x1/2 str mods), and then as I whirl around to finish the adversary off, I'm at a -2 with a x1 1/2 str mod. Basically, I'm netting 3 damage based off my Strength, with only a slightly higher chance of actually connecting with it. Then, I'd argue, the following round, my first attack would be two-handed, suffering a -2 penatly, and my second attack would be made as a double weapon, but suffering a -4 penalty. This switches from round to round, but I'm not gaining anything from round to round as far as a bonus compared to any other round. It just switches the order of my attack options.
Now throwing in haste, that's basically just the spell version of whirling frenzy. Toss that on top, and I still only switch one time per round, sometimes getting an extra big attack, sometimes getting an extra small attack. That's when things start to get confusing, I'd imagine. Not that everything isn't confusing as it is, lol.
As far as I've seen it sounds like RAW you pick on grip and attack with that in a given round. (But can change grips as a free action when you aren't attacking)
Thats my interpretation of the rule as well.
The way you interpret it there is no reason to say primary attack damage with double weapons is at x1 Str. mod and secondary ones at x½ str. mod.
One could just chose to two-hand the primary attacks for x1½ Str. mod. and then follow up with the secondaries.
That is not right!
Either you are fighting two-handed or you are fighting two-weapon style. There probably is a sage advice on it or a vague explanation of it if you really, look for it.
The spirit of the rule however is clear to me and I do not need to have it further explained. The x1/x½ rule would just be nonsense if you could just chose to two-hand in the midle of a fullround action.
The real advantage of double weapons is that they allow you to fight with the equivalent of two onehanded weapons without the corresponding TWF penalty. That is an effective +2 to attack rolls - i.e. a VERY good feat. I do not think exotic weapons are weak and I do not think it is necesary to shoehorn two-hander rules on double weapons to make them effective.
I think you're entirely missing what I'm trying to do. If I'm reading what you're saying correctly, you think I want to toss in the larger attack directly in the middle of my full round attack. No, I don't. I wish to take a penalty on all my attacks, in accordance with the TWF rules and feat. This means I'm already taking a -2 on both my first two attacks as a double weapon, AND an additional -2 on my larger attack at the end of the full attack action. Since I am granted an extra attack every round I rage, I would have 3 attacks per round. It seems like you're still thinking I can only get 2 attacks per round regardless of this bonus due to the whirling frenzy rage variant while using a double weapon, which is an error on your part.
This question came up during a recent 3.5 game, and since you guys are, well THE guys when it comes to anything 3.5 compatible, maybe you could help us out.
The Situation:
I am a whirling frenzy barbarian using an orc double-axe. I'm raging, so I gain an extra attack for the round. My first attack is made as a double weapon, which nets me 2 attacks with less damage (based from my strength mod). I want to switch my grip before my second attack, thus attacking with a two-handed weapon and gaining the extra strength bonus to my attack. The DM said I couldn't switch grips because I was in the middle of a full-round action, although switching grips is a free action (I think, need the clarification).
Any thoughts?
This is clearly an attempt to circumvent the rules for two weapon combat damage and benefit from the 1½ str modifier bonus from two handed weapons.
The spirit of the rules is clear enough. I think your DM is spot on on his ruling.
WUPS! Thanks for quoting him in your response Grandfather, I'd misread what he'd said.
As for RAW I'm not completely certain but I know I'd rule against it.
In my game, you can take the first pair of attacks (the two-weapon fighting attacks) and then your remaining iteratives could be two-handed swings, but if your two-weapon fighting then your two-weapon fighting, in that 'attack action' to steal a phrase from my homebrew (the meaning is in that iterative based attack opportunity) you chose to swing it twice, once with each end, so you get to swing it once with each end, at the normal two weapon fighting rules.
Maybe I didn't clarify this sentence enough, since either I'm really bad at figuring out what some people are saying or some people are assuming that I'm trying to attack with the second head of my double weapon at 1.5 Str bonus. I make my first double attack, then I make a second attack as a two-hander. I hope this makes sense. I am NOT wielding 2 weapons, I am 'effectively' wielding 2 weapons, as is covered by the double weapon rules.
This question came up during a recent 3.5 game, and since you guys are, well THE guys when it comes to anything 3.5 compatible, maybe you could help us out.
The Situation:
I am a whirling frenzy barbarian using an orc double-axe. I'm raging, so I gain an extra attack for the round. My first attack is made as a double weapon, which nets me 2 attacks with less damage (based from my strength mod). I want to switch my grip before my second attack, thus attacking with a two-handed weapon and gaining the extra strength bonus to my attack. The DM said I couldn't switch grips because I was in the middle of a full-round action, although switching grips is a free action (I think, need the clarification).
Any thoughts?
This is clearly an attempt to circumvent the rules for two weapon combat damage and benefit from the 1½ str modifier bonus from two handed weapons.
The spirit of the rules is clear enough. I think your DM is spot on on his ruling.
I disagree. The way you're wording it says something like 'this is clearly an attempt to cheat,' which is far from the truth. Saying that I'm 'effectively' two-weapon fighting (thus eliminating any chance for a two-handed attack) is the exact same argument of when a stirge attacks, he is 'effectively' grappling, meaning you cannot cast spells or make attacks against it since you are now 'grappling.' It's not a circumvention, it is merely a legitimate gripe with something that isn't clearly labeled. Please enlighten me on your interpretation of the spirit of the rule.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature
wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
This is an excerpt of the Pathfinder rulebook describing double weapons, but as far as I recall the same wording is actually used in the 3.5 PHB.
Basically you make your choice at the start of each round and are stuck with that choice until your next round. Remember: free actions can be used only within reason and are subject to DM discretion.
That only says "a creature wielding a double weapon in one hand". The OP clearly isn't. That said, I probably wouldn't allow it. My reasoning is thus:
Take a quarterstaff for example. It is usually used for thrusting attacks, granting it (at least irl rather than raw) an advantage over a sword due to its increased length. If one starts by trying to swing with both ends, it is considerably harder switch one's grip so as to use it effectively as a two handed weapon. I'd rule that most if not all double weapons are the same in that regard.
But that's not what's happening here. The base two-weapon fighting feat grants it's extra attack on the first 'set' in a full attack action, so it would go like this.
Fighter is holding quarterstaff (or double-axe or what-have you) at half-staff.
Fighter swings left half towards the target's face
Fighter swings right half towards the target's ribs
Fighter begins another swing, but rather than make another simple swing of a single side, he sweeps the weapon up over his head, firmly gripping it at 'quarter-staff' 1 hand 1/4 of the way up the weapon, the other hand in the middle, and delivers a powerful two-handed diagonal downward swing targetting his foe's neck and shoulder.
Make more sense now?
Your imagery here is exactly what I'm talking about. Now to find that pesky rule regarding switching grips as a free action. Great posts on this topic everyone!
My first attack is made as a double weapon ... [and] I want to switch my grip before my second attack, thus attacking with a two-handed weapon
Dear God !!! Not This Again
This situation was just vehemently debated HERE !!!!
Please read the old thread before rehashing this.
Ouch ... the painful flashbacks ...
R.
Thank you for your link. I wasn't aware that this had been discussed in such great detail. However, feel free to ignore any further posts in this thread if you find it painful to read this discussion. Thank you.
Jagyr Ebonwood wrote:
Rezdave wrote:
Dear God !!! Not This Again
Ha! My thoughts exactly.
See above.
Bill Dunn wrote:
Considering 3e -> PF combat is pretty flexible between attacks - you can decide to attack a different target, use a combat maneuver, load up ammunition for a bow, and so on - I'd be fairly lenient about switching grip on a suitable weapon.
That said, I would apply any penalties for choices you've previously taken to the subsequent attacks. You've invoked the two-weapon fighting penalties for taking that extra attack, you'll have to live with them even if you switch grips to use the weapon two-handed style until your next turn comes up.
Yeah I was accruing the penalties for fighting with two weapons and the inherent penalty from the whirling frenzy rage feature, so it wasn't like I was stacking a ton of bonuses. Actually it made me quite bland as far as combat went. It was more for style.
Dennis da Ogre wrote:
As far as I've seen it sounds like RAW you pick on grip and attack with that in a given round. (But can change grips as a free action when you aren't attacking)
However personally I think double weapons are pretty weak for being exotics. I would probably let one of my players slide on so long as he took the TWF penalty for the whole round.
Dennis da Ogre wrote:
As far as I've seen it sounds like RAW you pick on grip and attack with that in a given round. (But can change grips as a free action when you aren't attacking)
However personally I think double weapons are pretty weak for being exotics. I would probably let one of my players slide on so long as he took the TWF penalty for the whole round.
I agree that the double weapons aren't there for the most efficient weapon options. I was going more for style points, I guess. The metagaming players were wondering why I didn't go with the falchion for the greater crit threat range or the greataxe for damage. It simply wasn't what I pictured my character using. I can't remember where someone got the free action to switch grips ruling, but it was tossed around the table but two other players and the DM, whom I believe have a greater knowledge than I do in this respect.
Once you take on the TWF penalty and gain the extra attack you can't wield the weapon 2-handed to gain the extra damage. Your DM is correct.
Double Weapons
You can use a double weapon to make an extra attack with the off-hand end of the weapon as if you were fighting with two weapons. The penalties apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon.
Additionally:
PFRPG p. 141 wrote:
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature
wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
This is an excerpt of the Pathfinder rulebook describing double weapons, but as far as I recall the same wording is actually used in the 3.5 PHB.
Basically you make your choice at the start of each round and are stuck with that choice until your next round. Remember: free actions can be used only within reason and are subject to DM discretion.
Looking at the 3.5 PHB, first on page 115, under the description of the Orc Double Axe: "An orc double axe is a double weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon (see Two-Weapon Fighting, page 160).
Then continuing on to page 160 to refresh myself with the Two-Weapon Fighting rules: "Double Weapons: You can use a double weapon to make an extra attack with the off-hand end of the weapon as if you were fighting with two weapons. The penalties apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon."
So far, everything is on the money with what has been said regarding 3.5 rules. The Pathfinder rules are unfortunately irrelevant (although SO much clearer) in this situation, as we haven't upgraded to Pathfinder rules in that particular campaign.
Now, here's another question regarding this, as I still see nothing concrete in the 3.5 rules stating that I CAN'T do it (nowhere does it have the wording of the Pathfinder book, unless there was a third revision of 3.5 I'm unaware of). I agree that the DM can limit the amount of free actions one could use during the round, but since this is my ONLY free action, it still seems suspect. Let's say that he won't allow that free action to take place (which obviously happened), but would allow me to pull a potion from a masterwork potion belt mid-swing during the round. How does this make more sense than simply sliding one hand or the other from one position on the handle to another? I could see limiting a player to one switch per round, and them starting with the last grip they used in the next round (so going from a double attack to a two-handed attack one round, then going from a two-handed attack to a double attack the second round, and so on). I'm not trying to get a fourth attack or anything, I'm simply trying to picture what a 'whirling frenzy' barbarian would look like, bashing two faces in with either end of his axe, then 'whirling' around to take down another fresh enemy.
I do see what everyone is saying, however it's really not clear in the 3.5 PHB. They didn't really take into account multiple attacks with a weapon that CAN be wielded either as a two-handed weapon OR as two weapons. Rather, they didn't specifically handle the grip change rules from round to round.
Regardless, this character unfortunately died during the next session (our 3 2nd-level characters faced down an EL7 encounter since the DM wasn't 100% sure about what we could or couldn't handle). I guess the main issue I had was him telling me that I could do this, then spending my feats to get the Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Two-Weapon Fighting just to tell me during my first round of full attacks that I couldn't. GAAAAAAH!
Anywho, thanks very much for clarifying everything regarding the Pathfinder stuff. I can't wait to convert the rest of the group over!
This question came up during a recent 3.5 game, and since you guys are, well THE guys when it comes to anything 3.5 compatible, maybe you could help us out.
The Situation:
I am a whirling frenzy barbarian using an orc double-axe. I'm raging, so I gain an extra attack for the round. My first attack is made as a double weapon, which nets me 2 attacks with less damage (based from my strength mod). I want to switch my grip before my second attack, thus attacking with a two-handed weapon and gaining the extra strength bonus to my attack. The DM said I couldn't switch grips because I was in the middle of a full-round action, although switching grips is a free action (I think, need the clarification).
I can't know this for sure, so if I'm way off base, forgive me. Some FLGS owners are great guys that love the hobby in general. Others see themselves as being the arbiters of what should and shouldn't be in gaming.
I've seen FLGS owners that openly trash games that their patrons want to buy because they personally don't like it. I've also seen some of them that are so sure they understand the market that they ignore customers asking for products that would be sure sales.
Thankfully, the FLGS I go to is a great store, with an owner that is much more interested in the hobby gaming industry flourishing than trying to push his favorite games. But I have seen that this isn't always the case with game store owners.
I swear we live in the same town. Same thing happened here with the store owner only carrying what he wanted. Thankfully he has long since closed down. Our 2 bookstores in our mall also closed unfortunately, although Games By James has some rpg-related goodness behind the counter.
