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Ok, I have a single question on grapple. I’ve seen multiple posts on this and they get bogged down in minutia. I want a simple straight forward YES or NO.

Can you apply your dexterity modifier with weapon finesse to your CMB in place of your strength modifier when making a grapple attack?

I believe that you should be able to because weapon finesse states that natural attacks are considered light weapons and that you deliver the grapple attack with your hand.

Under the combat section it states that when you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

Further under the grapple entry it states that humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. This illustrates my argument that the grapple attacks is delivered with your hand.

I’ve heard the argument that Agile Maneuvers grants you this bonus so Weapon Finesse shouldn't. That’s a false line of logic otherwise known as a logical fallacy (i.e. if A is true then B is must be false). Just because one may grant the bonus it doesn’t mean the other couldn’t or shouldn’t grant the identical kind of bonus. I don’t care if it makes Agile Maneuvers worthless; I care about the logic of the rules.

Paizo Employee Sean K Reynolds Designer, posted that disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.

However, when asked if a monk’s Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 would affect the Combat Maneuver for Grapple?
Sean responded saying “I'd file that under "the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers."

This leaves open the door that unarmed attack modifiers may, at least in theory, modify your grapple CMB.

What do you think?

Ok, I have a single question on grapple. I’ve seen multiple posts on this and they get bogged down in minutia. I want a simple straight forward YES or NO.

Can you apply your dexterity modifier with weapon finesse to your CMB in place of your strength modifier when making a grapple attack?

I believe that you should be able to because weapon finesse states that natural attacks are considered light weapons and that you deliver the grapple attack with your hand.

Under the combat section it states that when you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

Further under the grapple entry it states that humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. This illustrates my argument that the grapple attacks is delivered with your hand.

I’ve heard the argument that Agile Maneuvers grants you this bonus so Weapon Finesse shouldn't. That’s a false line of logic otherwise known as a logical fallacy (i.e. if A is true then B is must be false). Just because one may grant the bonus it doesn’t mean the other couldn’t or shouldn’t grant the identical kind of bonus. I don’t care if it makes Agile Maneuvers worthless; I care about the logic of the rules.

Paizo Employee Sean K Reynolds Designer, posted that disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.

However, when asked if a monk’s Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 would affect the Combat Maneuver for Grapple?
Sean responded saying “I'd file that under "the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers."

This leaves open the door that unarmed attack modifiers may, at least in theory, modify your grapple CMB.

What do you think?