ttritten's page

Greetings all,
Been running Hell's Bright Shadows for a couple of sessions and the group has just reformed the Silver Ravens. Which brings me to a couple of questions around Allies/Members, Teams, and Supporters. I've read through as much of this thread as I could for the answers, but here is what I have that is outstanding. As I understand it:
1) "Supporters", as someone stated up-thread, are like XP for the rebellion; You don't know them, they aren't NPCs, they don't "do" anything other than define the level and strength of the rebellion.
2) Teams, aside from Specialized Teams, like the Tengu sisters, are also not NPCs, nameless, and only serve to perform and open up new Actions that can be done during the Activity Phase of the weekly Rebellion round.
3) Allies/Members: Now this is where I am confused. From the way it is written, Allies/Members are actual named NPCs that may or may not be part of the party, such as Laria and Rex. Aside from these two, how do you "recruit" allies?? For Example, Morgar: even though he is written into the mod to be the victim of Blosodriette's charms, how does the group "recruit" him? There doesn't seem to be any mechanism to bring new NPCs, either written into the mod or introduced by the GM, into the group as formal "Allies/Members" for the purposes of filling Offices or applying boons.
Do I, as the GM, just take a "Supporter" that's been recruited, flesh them out, and make them an "Ally/Member"?
Or am I overlooking something from the Mod.

Thanks for any help!

Hello Ttritten,

I'm sorry to hear you were missing some parts. If you can get us a good shipping address we can get replacements shipped out to you.

Thank you, Diego, for your reply.

If it makes it easier, I am only currently missing the Quick-Start Guide and will happily accept it in digital form.
If someone can attach a .pdf of the guide to an email to me, I would be happy with that.
Plus it would save you shipping costs and I could start playing the game this weekend as was my hopes.
Please let me know if this is something that can happen.
Thanks.

Any help at all would be great....
Thanks.

I see that you posted in the Customer Service forum as well—they'll get you taken care of there!

Thank you. I didn't know where the appropriate place would be.

Howdy...
Just purchased the latest Adventure Card Game Core Set with the Dragon's Demand Adventure and the Core Rule Book and Quick Start Guide were not included in the box.
I have been able to locate a downloadable PDF of the Core Rule book, but I have been unable to find a downloadable copy of the Quick Start Guide.
Is there one somewhere that someonecan provide a link for?

Thanks!

Howdy...
Just purchased the latest Adventure Card Game Core Set with the Dragon's Demand Adventure and the Core Rule Book and Quick Start Guide were not included in the box.
I have been able to locate a downloadable PDF of the Core Rule book, but I have been unable to find a downloadable copy of the Quick Start Guide.
Is there one somewhere that you can provide me a link for?

Thanks.

Greetings all...
There is much disagreement in our group over the interpretation over how being alone in a room allows one to remain hidden when someone else walks in the room.
This is involving how some people are interpreting the errata from the 5th -6th printing which clarifies Stealth and movement by saying:

"When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment."

Now, the problem arose when the Rogue in our party was alone in a room and decided they wanted to hide in a shadow (concealment) with Stealth. When the rest of us finally made it into the room, the rogue decided to move across the room to another shadow. The GM informed everyone that they could not see the Rogue while doing this. The one PC with Darkvision protested and, siting the rule from the core book that states that creatures cannot use shadows for concealment against creatures with Darkvision: ""An area of dim lighting or darkness doesn't provide any concealment against an opponent with darkvision." (pg 197)."

The group became split on this interpretation. Some people felt that (1) since he was alone in the room, he actually had COVER against the rest of the party via the walls of the room separating he and the party, and (2) since he started his round "using Stealth", then he automatically keeps it, even though his cover is gone, and therefore everyone has to make a Perception check.
The other members in our group felt that when you remove the condition of cover or concealment that is being used to base your Stealth roll, you lose the condition of being hidden and thus, need to find a new way to Stealth.

Now, the real problem here exists because of the way that the Pathfinder rules have chosen to word the description for Stealth vs. the way they were worded in 3.x. Basically, the replacement of "You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. (PHB 3.5)" with "If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can’t use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth.(PF)". Some people are interpreting this as meaning that in Pathfinder, observation is the only prerequisite to using Stealth and that cover and concealment only need to be considered "in most cases".

Aside from these two references, can anyone provide us with OTHER references from the rules that state clearly whether cover or concealment are necessary in order to make a stealth check and KEEP it once that element (cover/concealment) is removed.

Thanks.

Greetings all,

We are having quite a lively debate on just when someone can use the Stealth skill to become hidden, either visually or audibly.

Here is an excerpt from the 3.5 definition for the Hide Skill:

You need cover or concealment (see pages 150–152) in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway. If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide.

and this is from the Stealth Skill in the PF Core book:

If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can’t use Stealth. Against most creatures, f inding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth.

Here is the confusion:

Can any of you offer any other documented explanations that clear up whether cover or concealment are prerequisites for making a Stealth check??

Thanks.

It is not about which one is stronger. It is about rules interaction. Sometimes one will take precedence. Othertimes it will be the other.

So is this merely an arbitrary DM call, or is there some unstated mechanic at play here, such as "specific trumps general"?

@wraithstrike So why is the Special Quality of a creature more powerful than the Feat of a character? I'm trying to understand the logic behind the heiarchy of conflicting abiliities. Can you expain why Energy Affinity > Alignment Channel?
(It has been understood and agreed upon that Alignment Channel does not change the nature of the Channel (Positive vs. Negative) but only the effect it has on the target (Harm vs. Heal)).

I would agree with your "unstated rule". It makes sense.

I appreciate it and understand the importance of the difference between the two.

However, let's say that I am an Evil Cleric who Channels Negative. I go up against your [Outsider][Evil] creature (with energy affinity) and choose to use my Alignment Channel to Harm him with Channel Negative.
What happens?
Does he get healed by the Negative Energy because of his Energy Affinity?
Or does he get harmed by the Negative Energy because of my Alignment Channel?
Which trumps which?

Understood....
Thanks.

I think there may be some confusion here. Alignment Channel doesn't care about the creature's actual alignment, only whether it has an alignment sub-type, for which there exists no "Neutral" listing (if the GM wants to make one for his games, that's his prerogative, but not RAW).

For example, using Alignment Channel (Evil) to harm outsiders would fully effect a Chaotic Neutral Glabrezu, but it would have no effect on a Lawful Evil Astral Deva or a Neutral Evil Tiefling.

Oh WOW! I totally missed that!

PRD>Bestiaries>Creature Types>Creature SubTypes does not list "Neutral" as a sub-type.

Not sure that subtype = alignment.

This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the good-aligned Outer Planes. Most creatures that have this subtype also have good alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a good alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the good subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are good-aligned.

Bold emphasis mine.

This definition even goes so far as to say that if a creatures alignment changes, their subtype does not.
According to this: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/planarAdventures.html#_alignment -traits there are neutral-aligned planes.

Firstly I want to thank everyone for their input. This has really been helpful for me.

I think I have this nailed down in a way I understand and can communicate back to our group:

-Alignment Channel allows me to CHOOSE whether to Channel Positive or Negative against only creatures with the "outsider" tag of a specific Alignment.
-Elemental Channel allows me to CHOOSE whether to Channel Positive or Negative against only creatures with a particular elemental tag (Fire, Water, Air, Earth, etc)
-Versatile Channeler allows me to CHOOSE to Channel Positive or Negative against any creature in range at a -2 lvl penalty
-Selective Channel allows me to choose who is NOT targeted by my channel per my CHA bonus.

...did I miss anything?

Read the feat again. You are correct that the feat does not change which energy type you channel. What it does is change how you can apply the effect of that channelled energy to certain creatures. You absolutely can channel positive energy and harm outsiders with it. The feat explicitly lets you choose to only harm outsiders, and do nothing to your allies or any undead in the area. It is still positive energy, though.

Ok...so just to be clear: Are you saying that Alignment Channel basically allows me to do the same thing that Versatile Channeler does, BUT only to Outsiders, of a certain Alignment, and WITHOUT the -2 lvl penalty?

(edited for accuracy)

ttritten wrote:

It doesn't allow you to change what your original choice was.
If I chose to Channel Positive at 1st lvl, then I can ONLY Channel Positive.

It ADDS a choice. Read the feat again, with my bolding above. INSTEAD of the normal effect you can hurt/heal outsiders.

Then what purpose does Versatile Channeler serve?

Side note: There is no "Neutral" alignment sub-type, so with Alignment Channel you have to choose Good, Evil, Lawful, or Chaotic.

Not to sound like a rules-nazi, but is this documented anywhere?

if you chose channel positive and have alignment channel for evil, these are your options:

Heal living (including living outsiders)
Harm undead
Heal evil outsiders
Harm...

I don't agree with the 3rd & 4th options being choices. When dealing with something other than undead, Heal=Channel Positive, Harm=Channel Negative. They would not be choices I get to make each time I choose to Channel. So, based on Option 1 & 2, it is clear that I chose Channel Positive at 1st lvl, therefore the only thing Alignment Channel would allow me to di is ALSO choose to only heal evil outsiders, which would have been healed anyway with a normal Channel Positive. It might make more sense if option 3 was Heal GOOD outsiders...in case there were enemy outsiders AND allied outsiders in the range of your Channel.

It does not restrict you to heal or harm based upon your energy type.

It doesn't allow you to change what your original choice was.

Constructs are neither living nor undead.

IIRC, all other non-undead creatures are living.

The Alignment Channel and Elemental Channel may be a legacy from 3.5 where you were only turning or rebuking undead.

In PFRPG, they allow a positive channeler to harm outsiders or elementals. Same for a negative channeler aiming to heal those.

Your Cleric should take the Versatile Channeler feat BTW. Also Ability Focus (Channel) stacks with Improved Channeling. Later on Holy Vindicator can be fun.

There is also a 3PP Class called the Divine Channeler which is basically an alternate Cleric with more Channels (and diverse uses for them) and reduced spellcasting abilities which give a greater weight to domain spells.

I can't find anything from 3.5 that is comparable to this for the reasons you state: Channeling Positive/Negative is a new concept to PF that didn't exist in 3.x.

Regarding Versatile Channeler, It is an AWESOME feat, however, without the ability to exclude the party, it can be just as counterproductive as normal Channeling Positive (heal the enemy vs. hurt your party).

What I am really asking is why are Outsiders/Elementals given special consideration and others are not? Is there a Feat that would allow me to apply the same alignment-filter to ALL Living, or ALL Undead?

Think about this scenario: We are helping the spirit of a dead girl (Ghost) find her murderer...I would like to channel positive to all of the skeletons and zombies the evil cleric (murderer) has set upon us without hurting the ghost of the little girl, who is undead, but also NG. If she was a "fire-elemental" or an "angel", I could do it...but not a NG Ghost.

I also just noticed something: According to the Bestiary, all Elementals are ALSO Outsiders. So what's the point of having both defined as Feats??

Lawful Good cleric with Alignment Channel (Evil) faces a demon. His channel choices are:

Heal all living (this will include the demon).
Harm all undead (there aren't any in this scenario)
Heal all Outsiders with the Evil subtype (umm...)
Harm all outsiders of the Evil subtype (ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!)

Alignment Channel does not allow me to alter my choice made when I initially received the Channel Energy class feature at level 1 of Cleric. I can only Channel Positive OR Channel Negative targeting "Evil Outsiders"...I don't get to choose. It is whatever I chose when I took my 1st level of Cleric.

Greetings all,

In our current campaign, we have a cleric that is exploring the best ways he can augment his ability to Channel Energy.
He is a true neutral Cleric worshiping a true neutral deity. At 1st lvl, he chose to Channel Positive Energy. At a later level, he chose to take the Alignment Channel feat.
Here is where the question comes in: The definition of Channel Energy specifies that it "causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living)...". "Undead" is a well defined creature subtype, however what does "living" represent, from a subtype perspective?
Do all creatures fall into one of the two categories? Either "living" or "undead"?
If so, then what is the purpose of Alignment Channel? Are "outsiders" not also considered "living"?
What is the purpose of Elemental Channel? Are "elementals" not also "living"?
I have not been able to locate anything detailing this assumed subtype, "living".

Now, based on the wording of the two feats in question, it appears that these feats allow you to narrow down the targeting of your Channel Energy to one of the 6 possible alignments(G,N,E,L,N,C). (More if you take the feat multiple times.)

So, the big question is: Why is this "narrowing down" only applied to Outsiders or Elementals?? It's a great idea to be able to "fine-tune" who you are "channeling energy" to, but why not apply it to ALL living, or ALL undead? What is so special about outsiders/elementals that they deserve their own feats? Are they not considered "living"??

Thanks in advance for all feedback!