stevelabny's page

Ah, you are worried about the looting situation.

Not JUST the looting situation. Using the Rogue/Bard as examples - they don't have crossbows or shortbows, they have either a climber's kit or an instrument but not both (imagine if you will a multiclass rogue/bard), other support kits range from Light to Bulk 2. At 10 STR they're significantly rationing their pack space. At 8 STR they better be just using daggers.

And there's always reasons to pick up other items before you even get to looting. Like "quest items". Or when you're high enough level that magic items should be expected, but you can't carry your Horn of Fog or Immovable Rod.

And like I said, even high STR characters - they used to be able to carry multiple weapons. Or to act as packmule for the weak members. Can't really do either of those anymore if they're wearing armor.

Looking into your suggestions they add 1 (lifting belt) 2 (hefty hauler) or 3 (ant haul) to your Bulk capacity before becoming encumbered. I hope they stack. The Dwarven feat only removes half the movement penalty, not the Clumsy condition, and dwarves are already slower so that doesn't really apply. So its BAGS OF HOLDING FOR EVERYONE.

I'm ALL for resource management being part of the game. But the numbers here seem a bit extreme. And the Adventurer's Pack being listed as Bulk 2 was making it even worse.

I think you're going to see this be an issue for anyone who doesn't just ignore it. Even if they're not Monty Hauling grand pianos out of the palace.

I think Erik Mona said that Adventure's Pack is just 1 Bulk.

Which is the only logical explanation for most of the math. But does anyone have a source for this?

But now it just means the bard can pick up 5 Light items and 1 shortsword before hitting the encumbered penalty. Which still seems too little.

Skimming is probably the issue.

1 Bulk = 11 Light items.

9 or 10 light items count as 0 bulk.

Hope this helps.

I got all that. But it doesn't address anything I listed in my post? The Bulk numbers I listed were the BULK items, I separated the light items. I think you might have skimmed more than I have. Edit: And 1-9 light items = 0 bulk, but 10-19 items = 1 Bulk. Light items turn to Bulk at 10 not 11.

TLDR: The bard they have listed is 4 Bulk + 3 light. But if you check the items individually, its 5 Bulk + 4 light. Your Bulk Limit is 5+StrMod so if the Bard in question has a 10 STR the sample, starting bard is at 5 Bulk, 4 Light. And can only pick up 5 more light items before hitting 6 Bulk and becoming encumbered.

I'm skimming the 2E rules and I bounced into the equipment section to check out bulk. Bulk Limits are 5+StrMod.

The numbers are scary. But I'm being confused by the sample characters.

Alchemist listing says: 4 Bulk, 6 Light
Items say: Studded Leather 1, Dagger L, Sling L, 20 Bullets, LL, Adventurer's Pack 2, Alchemist's Tools 2, Bandolier -, Basic Crafter's Book L, 2 sets of Caltrops LL, Sheath -
Math says: 5 Bulk, 7 Light

Barbarian listing says: 3 Bulk, 5 Light
Items say: Hide Armor 2 , 4 Javelins LLLL, Adventurer's Pack 2, Grappling Hook L, 2 sheaths --,
Math says: 4 Bulk, 5 Light

Bard listing says: 4 Bulk, 3 Light
Items say: Studded Leather 1, Dagger L, Rapier 1, Sling L, 20 Bullets LL. Adventurer's Pack 2, Bandolier -, Handheld Instrument 1, Sheath -
Math says: 5 Bulk, 4L

Ranger listing says: 3 Bulk, 3 Light
Items say: Leather Armor 1, Dagger L, Longbow 2, 20 Arrows LL, Adventurer's Pack 2, Sheath -
Math says: 5 Bulk, 3 Light. This one is off by TWO!!!

What's going on? When you do the math correctly, the characters who usually don't need strength are right up against their encumbered stat with the bare minimums. Spare weapons? Only daggers. Crossbows or Shortbows? Unlikely. Carrying any amount of loot back to town? Better hope you don't have any encounters.

Any sort of dex-based duel-sword build is looking at bulk 5 just for 2 swords, leather armor, and an adv pack. The classes that usually have average strength can't carry anything (The Rogue would start at 5 Bulk so I hope they're not stealing anything with weight or their escape would be very difficult)

Even the str-based builds would hurt. Plate armor is 4 Bulk which eats up ALL of your required STR modifier. Leaving you with 5 Bulk for your Greatsword (2), Adventurers Pack (2) and Longbow (2) NOPE, TOO HEAVY, BETTER TAKE THE SHORTBOW.

Am I missing rules? Am I terrible at basic math? Help!

Otherwise - possible theories?

1> The Adventurer's Pack is supposed to weigh Bulk 1. Everyone is over by 1 Bulk (the Ranger by 2) and its the one item they all have in common. (The various differences in Light amounts seem to be ammo based with 20ammo weighing the same as 10)

2> Bulk Limit is actually 5+StrMod+Level so you can carry some loot? (still doesn't explain the bad math, but let's people carry their stuff maybe)

3> They really don't want anyone lowering stats below 10. An 8 STR rogue is now functionally useless.

4> Pathfinder 2E is meant to be like Outward the video game - drop your pack before every combat. That's why everyone has bandoliers! I would say they want you to leave the packs on the donkeys outside the dungeon, but that's where your chalk is!

5> Nobody takes encumbrance rules seriously, so even adding a new system nobody bothered to test it or make sure the math was right, and/or they botched it on purpose so that even less people would use it and they could eventually remove it outright.

Please tell me I'm stupid and missing something???