shinitra's page

Thanks for the feedback all. That's all pretty much what I was thinking, but love getting confirmation that I'm not just "being mean." And as he's a relatively new player to Pathfinder, I don't feel the need to "teach him a lesson" though that is tempting for some of the silly questions I get from more seasoned people. :)

So, I have a player with a Samsaran Cleric who took the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait. He is now asking, if he takes Paladin spells, for example, Bless weapon, with the MPL ability, can he then take the Unsanctioned Knowledge Feat (included below for ease), to get even more spells from other places?

While I think it's a "clever" idea, my inclination is "No." Looking for feedback/advice.

Thanks!

Unsanctioned Knowledge
You have searched though forbidden texts and are privy to powerful but proscribed magic.

Prerequisites: Int 13, ability to cast 1st-level paladin spells.

Benefit: Pick one 1st-level spell, one 2nd-level spell, one 3rd-level spell, and one 4th-level spell from the bard, cleric, inquisitor, or oracle spell lists. Add these spells to your paladin spell list as paladin spells of the appropriate level. Once chosen, these spells cannot be changed.

Yes, but getting a free spell when you have already gotten the same spell for free doesn't really do anything...

Personally I will be switching that spell out for a different one if I ever have a Life Oracle that high level.

It could also be that there's not really an obvious 8th level spell to give as a bonus spell for the Life Mystery. I haven't hit that level yet, but was planning ahead and discovered this tonight. But in looking for replacement spells to suggest to my GM, I'm not finding one that leaps out.

There's a couple of 7th level spells that could be good for the bonus list, but I'm not a fan of the idea of that. There is a (sort of) precedent with the occasional Domain spell being granted at a different level than you'd normally get the spell, but that's different enough that I don't think it should apply here.

Looks like us Life Oracles are stuck with only one bonus 8th level spell. (We also only use the Core Rulebook and the APG, so if there's spells in other books, I just don't know about them, and don't have access to them.)

Class skills DON'T grant +3 ranks! It's just a bonus on skill checks!

As for the skill itself. I like the combination, but I would like to see speak language has the same use for spoken and heard languages than decipher script has for written ones.
So if you here a foreign language, make a skill check to see if you understood something (if you speak the language no check is needed, of course!)

My bad, I misread that, or rather, misinterpreted it because of the ingrained current skill system. Regardless...20 languages at 20th level is still just plain ludicrous to me. *shrug*

I can get behind the idea of a check to recognize spoken words ala Decipher Script and written ones. The check (if you cared to add this level of complexity to it) could be at a +X if you speak a language with the same alphabet. So, if I speak Dwarven, I'd be at +2 on a check to understand Terran, for example.

I don't have a problem with languages being cheaper to buy. What I have the problem with is Speak Language being lumped in with Decipher Script and Forgery. So, if I want to be a forgery expert, then at 20th level I also speak 23 languages? Does the game even have that many base languages? (excluding regional dialects for setting, of course)

Keep it out as a skill of its own. Make it cost one skill point per language. But treat it as a cross-class skill for max ranks, maybe? (ie, you don't get +3 ranks to it) That would keep it a little more reasonable without injecting too much realism into it, I think.

I do kind of like the idea about the alphabet-related languages. But, that will add a good bit of complexity to a single skill in a system which is doing its best to significantly simplify things.

In the end, you can never make everyone 100% happy with a set of rules. Thus, House Rules are born. ;)

I am largely in favor of combining skills, and so far, I think they've got it mostly right. I agree on the swim & climb front. No one in my games ever takes them beyond a rank just to show they can. Though, of the whole batch: balance, jump, tumble, climb & swim, I find swim the hardest to lump in with the rest. You can learn the first 4 in a simple 2-week summer gymnastics camp. But swimming isn't really tied to the others. But, for the sake of simplifying the system, I don't really have a problem with lumping it in with the rest.

My biggest concern of all the skills is the Linguistics skill. Forgery has nothing to do with speaking languages. Just because I can speak German doesn't mean I can forge a German passport. They're two completely different skills.

Most important though, is that (in my opinion) you should never link the number of languages you speak with another skill. The way it stands, if I have max ranks in Linguistics so that I can be a really excellent forger, then at 20th level, I'll speak 23 languages??!!?? Sorry, that's insane. Does the game even have that many languages?

Speak Language needs to stay on its own, unchanged from the 3.0/3.5 system. If you really feel the need to combine skills, keep Decipher Script and Forgery together under Linguistics, but please keep Speak Language out of it.