s45qu4tch's page

To be fair, this is a bit of a corner case that relies on looking up some somewhat obscure rules, and then going a level deeper. A lot of freelancing relies on just *knowing* the rules, as looking up the interactions between every single keyword you use will take...far more time than you're getting paid for. For cases like this, or things like burrowing creatures can't charge, it's fairly easy for me to see why slipups would happen.

The sections were also probably written by different people (if I understand the question at hand).

Absolutely. When there's this much stuff to cover, and different ppl writing it, mistakes where things don't exactly match up will happen. There is no way of know what the intent was without speaking directly to the author. Which leaves us with lively debates on the wording of various rules. Ultimately I was interested to see what others thought. So far I've got one dissenting and one for. (If I've understood the phase "what it says on the tin" correctly.)

Note that the aquatic subtype never says that you get a Swim speed. Not needing to make Swim skill checks without a Swim speed means that you never need to make Swim checks to move at half your Swim speed (the standard rate for landlubbers). If you pick the Swim speed, you get a Swim speed. If you pick amphibious, you can breathe water and air and don't need to make Swim checks to Swim at half speed.

Interesting. You say aquatic subtype doesn't grant a swim speed, but aquatic subtype says "always have swim speeds". To my mind those statements are in direct conflict with each other. Just because it doesn't flat out state, "Creature gets a swim speed of XX ft" doesn't mean they aren't granted a swim speed. "Always" makes that unnecessary.

I have this image in my head of a wereshark-kin doing the breaststroke to keep his head above water because he chose swim over amphibious. It's a little pathetic.

I think the wereshark-kin got shorted on bestial features, as they have a swim speed of 30ft and amphibious.

Amphibious says: "Creatures with this special quality have the aquatic subtype, but they can survive indefinitely on land."

Aquatic subtype says: "These creatures always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. An aquatic creature can breathe water. It cannot breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality. Aquatic creatures always treat Swim as a class skill."

Doesn't that mean that by choosing amphibious in bestial form they automatically get a swim speed? Why would they need a second option of just swim speed without water-breathing and Swim as a class skill? It just seems redundant and a little bit pointless.

As to Sandpoint, It's actual population is on 1240 so it should take up 5 lots. On that note it is just about right. You also have to remember that each building represents a district. If you have castle, you invariably will also have a graveyard/inn/shop. I think that each if you have the named district then people far and wide will associate your city with that facility. Not sure witch 5 Sandpoint would actually be best represented by.

I'm sorry but I must disagree. That isn't how I read the rules.

A castle takes up the entire space it's in, and while it may include a crypt, it does not have and inn or shop. You seem to have forgotten that an inn and a shop require a house each. A castle doesn't count, and there is no room for them.

If you work off the 5 lots you mentioned then according to my list Sandpoint would be a cathedral and a graveyard. Period. No Inns. No Shops. No Houses. No Markets. Nothing that would be necessary for a population to survive. Might work as a necromancer's necropolis, but not as a living town.

Each lot is not a district. A group of 36 lots is a district (hence the "District Grid" on p. 226 of Ulti. Camp.). There is also nothing in the images of the previous 2 pages that implies that these buildings are anything more than just a building, not districts as you imply.

IMO, my complaint still stands.

If I may make a point. Lets dump the castle and talk about other buildings.

I was just looking at the map of Sandpoint in the Rise of the Runelords Anni. Ed. pg 374. By using the legend on the map I got about 1500' N to S (not including the manors) and about 1000' W to E. (These are rough, rounded off approximations). So, for the sake of argument lets call 1500' by 1500', which would make the entire town a single block ie 4 lots.

There are 50 locales listed as being in Sandpoint. I'll just use the first 10. They include a cathedral, graveyard, tavern/inn, library, jeweler, dump, 2 houses, locksmith, and garrison (barracks and jail).

According to Ulti. Camp. those buildings would total 14 lots.

cathedral - 4
graveyard - 1
tavern/inn - 1 each
library - 1
shop (x2) - 1 each
dump - 1
houses (x2) - 1 (this includes multiple houses so I'll only count 1)
garrison - 2

Seems to be a big difference and that only covers 20% of what's listed as being in Sandpoint. I've yet to hear an argument that accounts for this huge discrepancy. These lot sizes do not match any of the already published maps. If each grid was 750' by 750' then you might be able to get Sandpoint to match up with the new kingdom rules, but not as it stands now.

I get that they're trying to limit the size of PC's kingdoms, but there is simply to big of a difference for me to accept.