ryan krueger 787's page

ryan krueger 787 wrote:

the guide ranger option which is where i get ranger's focus replaces animal companion. I dont see how one point of will save is a big difference. i have +3 will at first level, +5 while raging at first level, because i have a base of 14 wisdom and a +1 trait bonus. give me a resistance cape and i'm good to go. also since mojorat pointed out that i can't bite and gore at the same time, i might as well spend that feat on iron will.

By Ranger's Focus you mean Terrain Bond. I missed that this replaced the Animal Companion - however the point still stands that it is a loss; a well built animal companion can be a major asset.

At level one your will save will be +3 (+5 while raging), at level 5 your will save will be +3 (+5 while raging). Note that the +5 portion does not stack with a large number of spells or abilities (Bardic Music, Bless, Heroism, etc.) so there is that to consider. Personally I think Iron Will is required in this build to make sure you aren't dominated / afraid at an inopportune moment.

Its the guide option i was saying that has a replacement of animal companion in it, albeit via the terrain bond feature contained within the guide variant as you point out. i think you are right that the build needs iron will, that being said, i think all classes with weak will saves need iron will, theres not a big difference between this and a pure barb or fighter as far as will saves go.

Hey, Ryan. I didn't know you enjoyed cheese this much! And this one's particularly heady, too. Heh.

As one of the GMs you'll be dealing with, I can tell you you'll have a problem getting, "I two-weapon fight with my spiked armor" by me. Dave, too, will give you the hairy eyebrow and say, "Nope."

Also, the bite/gore thing that someone noted above is absolutely correct: you cannot make a second attack with a different weapon with the same limb (your head, in this case). And if you try to argue rules with us, the default with ambiguous rules is almost always, "No."

And Alizor is 100% correct on the will save. Don't remember the other night very well, do you?

Just sayin'...

oh believe me, i remember... "will save or die..." haha.

So this is just my thoughts from my initial look:

1) The spiked armor + two-handed weapon might not be allowed by individual DMs. It will probably be rare to not be allowed, but it'll be a major blow to your character in the event s/he doesn't let you use it.

2) You might want to consider the cost of the multiclassing. You lose 5 HP/Skill points, 1 ranger feat (high level variant), 1 use of Focus, +2 to attack/damage on focus, an upgraded animal companion (at the moment it's effectively useless), Ranger's Luck/Inspired Moment, and 3rd level ranger spells.

3) As a separate note, the multiclassing will make your will save REALLY LOW compared with not multiclassing. In fact, you don't gain a +1 base will save until 6th level when most single classed characters will be at +2, on the way to +3. In the end you're only 1 lower than not multiclassing (with other saves being higher), but the will save at lower levels will definitely hurt.

the guide ranger option which is where i get ranger's focus replaces animal companion. I dont see how one point of will save is a big difference. i have +3 will at first level, +5 while raging at first level, because i have a base of 14 wisdom and a +1 trait bonus. give me a resistance cape and i'm good to go. also since mojorat pointed out that i can't bite and gore at the same time, i might as well spend that feat on iron will.

ryan krueger 787 wrote:

Mojorat wrote:

You cannot bit and gore someone at the same time.

Core rule book, pg 182 under the heading natural attacks "You do not recieve additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you recieve additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack."

The section under making secondary attacks with natural weapons says you cannot make one if the limb has already been used for an attack

So you cannot hit some one with a two handed sword and claw with the hand used to wield the weapon. Nore can you gore someone and bite them.

I do not know the page number

Hmm, your logic seems to trump mine. A head is a limb. +1 mojorat.

ryan krueger 787 wrote:

Read up on the attack action and then read up on full attack pg 181 and 187 of core rule book. The way it reads in the book you make an attack- a single attack- then you decide to make a full attack or move. I also included the text in my original post that may help clarify why I'm coming to this conclusion.

"First attack" and "Single attack" are not the same thing. If you make more than one attack you are not making a single attack. Once you use overhand chop you are really committing yourself to only one attack that round.

We need to define whether the attack action is part of a full attack. You make an attack using the attack action. Then once it is resolved you can decide to full attack or move. I'll repost whats on page 187: "Deciding between an attack or full attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round." Two handed fighter overhand chop says you make a "single attack (using the attack action or charge)". Attack action = single attack. Now i decide whether or not to full attack.

I cant tell by the original post but you cannot have two rangers focus at the same time, you just get it an additional time per day.

I am also trying to count your rage boosts.

I am getting 4 rounds shorter but maybe I missed something

2 levels Barb, +3 con +3 trait + 6 feat. 14 total rounds.

correct, i would be able to use ranger's focus against different opponents, not at the same time. awesome for killing the head badguy in a group. usually about 3-5 combats in a society session.

rage rounds are calculated this way: 4 rounds base + 3 rounds con + 3 trait + 6 rounds feat + 2 rounds when i get my second level of barb = 18.

You cannot bit and gore someone at the same time.

Core rule book, pg 182 under the heading natural attacks "You do not recieve additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you recieve additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack."

Spiked armor is definitely some cheeze, not exactly unbalancing but it does a lot of things I don't think were ever intended for it such as the two handed + two weapon fighting combination. You might need to be concerned about some game masters not letting you do that even if the rules technically support it.

He has the TWF for double slice from ranger but doesn't have the dex so he can't take that. Also as noted the overhand chop won't work with your other tricks.

Over all it looks pretty solid.

I guess my response to this is that spiked armor was made to be used while grappling obviously, but it specifically says it can used as a light weapon. I would question why they made it a light weapon if you weren't supposed to twf with a two hander with it? The good people at paizo aren't dummies, they knew what they were doing when they put that in there. Also I'm not worried about GM's not letting me use it, because it's for pathfinder society, and all i need is a ruling and then bring in a copy of the ruling and they have to let me use it =)

Overhand Chop only works if you make a single attack. If you make more than one (full attack after 5th level or 2-weapon fighting), this ability is useless.

"when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls."
I suppose a lenient GM could let you make your first attack with 2x bonus, assuming you're only going to strike once, then let you undo the extra damage if you decide to hit it again.

Read up on the attack action and then read up on full attack pg 181 and 187 of core rule book. The way it reads in the book you make an attack- a single attack- then you decide to make a full attack or move. I also included the text in my original post that may help clarify why I'm coming to this conclusion.

Dirkfreemont wrote:

5. Fgtr 2 - 5th lev feat: Raging Vitality /fgtr feat: Double strike (str to spiked armor instead of half)

I assume here you mean Double Slice?

It requires Dex 15 and the Two Weapon Fighting feat. I don't think you have either?

Yep, double slice, sry about that. and i get two weapon fighting for free as a level 2 ranger. You are correct however in that while in the feat descriptions on page 116 (the place i looked, like a fool) it only requires two weapon fighting, in the actual feat description on page 122 it in fact says "prerequisite two weap. fighting, dex 15". Nice catch, now i have to rethink this whole thing, or at least a different 5th level feat. or i could really go for the min/max and drop cha to 7, giving me an extra point to spend on dex, and then drop con to 15 bumping my dex to 14 at level one, and then at level 4 i bump dex to 15, and level 8 str goes to 18, and at level 12 con goes to 16.