The Primal Companion Archetype for the Hunter gives you a pool of evolution points, similar to that of a summoner, that can be used to enhance your animal companion, or in the case of their death, the Hunter themselves. This ability is quoted below:
Primal Transformation (Su)
Spoiler:
At first level, a primal companion hunter can awaken a primal creature from within his animal companion as a swift action. The animal companion gains a pool of 2 evolution points that can be used to temporarily give the companion evolutions as if it were an eidolon. A primal companion hunter uses her hunter level to determine her effective summoner level for the purpose of qualifying for evolutions and determining their effects. At 8th level, the number of evolution points in her pool increases to 4, and at 15th level, it increases to 6.
The animal companion gains a pool of evolution points that can be used to temporarily give the companion evolutions as if it were an eidolon. A primal companion hunter uses her hunter level to determine the number of evolution points gained, limitations on how often an evolution can be selected, and so on. Whenever she gains a level, she must decide how these points are spent, and they are set until she gains another level.
Activating these evolutions on the animal companion is a swift action. A primal companion hunter can use this ability for 1 minute per day per hunter level. This duration need not to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments. An animal companion transformed in this way cannot exceed the maximum number of attacks available to the eidolon of a summoner whose class level equals that of the hunter. While transformed in this way, the animal companion's type changes to magical beast, though the primal companion hunter still treats it as an animal for the purpose of the Handle Animal skill.
If a primal companion hunter's animal companion is dead, she can apply these evolutions to herself instead of to her animal companion. Uses of this ability count toward the hunter's maximum daily duration of evolution use.
This ability replaces animal focus.
In the Eidolon rules, we see that an eidolon has a cap of a max number of natural attacks based on its level. This archetype mentions that the animal companion must abide by this cap. However, the language is not overly specific as to how this ability works if it is used on the Hunter instead.
If the Hunter's animal companion is dead, and they use the Primal Transformation ability on themselves, are they subject to the maximum number of attacks allowed by the Eidolon rules? Does this cover any existing natural attacks, or just those granted by the evolution points?
For instance, say we have a level 15 Hunter with 2 claw attacks and a bite attack, making for 3 natural attacks. They go to use the Primal Transformation ability... since their animal companion is dead, they apply the evolutions to themselves. They have 6 evolution points to spend, and want to gain additional natural attacks. I see the following being potential options here...
A: The Hunter is not subject to the Eidolon's max attack rules, as the Primal Transformation only specifically requires the animal companion to adhere to them. The Hunter may spend all of the evolution points on gaining natural attacks.
B: The Hunter is subject to the Eidolon's max attack rules, and may only have a total of 6 natural attacks at level 15. This cap only applies to evolutions, and not any existing natural attacks the Hunter may have. The Hunter may spend the evolution points on natural attacks up to a limit of 6, as per the Eidolon rules.
C: The Hunter is subject to the Eidolon's max attack rules, and may only have a total of 6 natural attacks at level 15. This cap applies to ALL natural attacks, regardless of source. Since the Hunter already has 3 existing natural attacks, they can only choose 3 more via evolutions. Should the Hunter already have 6 natural attacks from other sources, they cannot choose any natural attack evolutions as per the Eidolon rules.
I know this archetype has had a lot of confusion associated with it, but with the recent errata, I'm curious if anyone has any clarification on how exactly this ability works in regards to the Hunter.
If you were to gain a deed via Amateur Gunslinger / Swashbuckler and then take a level in a Grit / Panache granting class with a deed-altering Archetype, what happens to your existing deeds? Do they get changed or not?
Example:
I take Amatuer Swashbuckler and choose the Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) deed.
I take a level in Swashbuckler, using the Picaroon archetype.
Since Picaroon replaces the Opportune Parry and Riposte deed with the Melee Shooter deed, which deed do I have access to?
I can foresee this going several different ways...
A: I can trade in the Amateur Swashbuckler feat for Extra Panache, (as per the feat's special line), presumably losing my access to the Opportune Parry and Riposte deed. At this point, I have a level in Picaroon, which has removed this deed's availability, replacing it with Melee Shooter. I can choose a 1st level deed, with Melee Shooter as a valid option, but not Opportune Parry and Riposte.
B: I can keep Amateur Swashbuckler, foregoing the trade-in for Extra Panache. I retain the Opportune Parry and Riposte deed via the feat, and can choose Melee Shooter as my 1st level deed as a Picaroon.
C: I can keep Amateur Swashbuckler, foregoing the trade-in for Extra Panache. I retain the Opportune Parry and Riposte deed via the feat, but since I have a level in Picaroon now, the deed gets replaced by Melee Shooter, as per the archetype. I can now choose a different first level deed as a Picaroon.
These kinds of situations seem to pop up frequently if you take levels in Swashbuckler or Gunslinger after starting with their Amatuer feats, and I'm not entirely sure how they're supposed to be handled outside of GM fiat. Does anyone have any ruling insight into these interactions?
So a Witch with, say, 20 STR and 10 INT would treat her hair as only having 10 STR, rather than 20?
This seems kind of silly if using the hex is causing your STR to be treated as lower than it actually is, but would be the case if what you're saying is true.
I've been looking over some witch hexes for some of my players, and wasn't quite sure if there was an order of operations when it came to applying effects, or if there was any pre-existing ruling on how the Witch Hex Prehensile Hair interacts with Strength bonuses.
Prehensile Hair:
Effect: The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score. Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can use it as a secondary natural attack that deals 1d3 points of damage (1d2 for a Small witch). Her hair can manipulate objects (but not weapons) as dexterously as a human hand.
The hair cannot be sundered or attacked as a separate creature. Pieces cut from the witch’s elongated hair shrink away to nothing. Using her hair does not harm the witch’s head or neck, even if she lifts something heavy with it. The witch can manipulate her hair a number of minutes each day equal to her level; these minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. A typical male witch with this hex can also manipulate his beard, moustache, or eyebrows.
Since the hair is treated as a limb with Strength equal to the Witch's Intelligence, I'm curious if it's susceptible to buffing via Strength increases. Obviously improving your Intelligence improves the hair's equivalent Strength score, but what happens if the hair is in use and the Witch is buffed with Bull's Strength or the like?
An example case:
Witch with 10 STR and 20 INT casts the Prehensile Hair Hex.
Hair extends and becomes a natural attack, treated as though it were being swung about with 20 STR (+5 mod).
Witch is buffed with Bull's strength, improving her STR score to 14.
Does the hair now have a strength of 24, or does it remain at 20?
Presumably, since the hair is part of the Witch, it's subject to all of the ability score adjustments and buffs that the affect the Witch. However, since the hex states that it is treated as if it were a limb with STR = INT, I'm not sure any STR bonuses would apply. Any thoughts?
Also, I am fairly certain that you are just one voice in this discussion. Stating that you speak for everyone else is a little arrogant (ie "We're more interested...").
"We" being myself and the players from my table who I discussed this with. I came here asking for other people's input, not to speak on behalf of everyone. I apologize if it came across this way, as that was certainly not the intent.
And while I think your stance is a perfectly valid one to take, I'm asking about its direct Read-As-Written interpretation. The lance doesn't say it deals double damage when "wielded" from the back of the mount, but when "used". I get that you're no longer wielding the weapon after you throw it. Similarly, you're no longer wielding an arrow once you've fired it fro ma bow. But firing an unremarkable arrow from a magically enhanced bow causes the arrows to confer the effects of the bow, despite them not being wielded or in any way connected to the bow upon striking their target.
@RedDogMT - The part about wielding the lance in one hand isn't what we're interested in here. The lance is entered in the weapon tables as a two-handed weapon, normally. We idling it from the back of a mount allows a special case where it can be used as a one-handed weapon instead. We are fully capable of throwing it with one or two-hands, regardless of this line. We're more interested in the part about *using* it from the back of a mount.
@alexd1796 - It's not the fact that it's a throwing weapon that doubles the damage, it's the language specifically surrounding the lance as a weapon. We've already outlined feats, such as Charging Hurler that allows you to make a thrown attack as part of a charge, so you are indeed making charge attack with the lance from a mount when throwing the weapon (in a completely legal fashion). The question is whether or not it retains its lance double-damage property, because we are indeed meeting the criteria of a lance charge when throwing it. This whole theory revolves around the fact that the lance doesn't very specifically state that you must make a *melee* charge attack to achieve the bonus damage.
Heh, thanks Davor. I was thinking if this is *technically* legal, though absurd, that some tinkering with Mounted Skirmisher and the Sohei Monk archetype could lead to some pretty insane lance flinging... despite its complete disregard for the *intended* mechanics.
I specifically mentioned the Throwing enchantment, because to my understanding it makes the weapon an actual throwing weapon, rather than an improvised throwing weapon.
I get that this should not be the way this works, but everything that has been brought up to refute it thus far has already been addressed in the original post. >_<
@DM_Blake: That's a good point of emphasis, but I'm not sure if it is entirely relevant. Shooting a mundane arrow from an enchanted bow, for instance, still applies the magical effects of the bow despite it never touching its target. The lance is indeed being "used" from the back of a charging mount, even if it is not connected to the mount / rider at the time of impact.
I'm a long-time lurker and new DM and thought up a goofy situation that I'm hoping some more rule-savvy community members can jump in and answer...
If I have a character throw a lance from a charging mount, does it deal double damage?
There are a number of ways of setting this up that may vary in degree of legality, but I'm thinking that from a RAW standpoint, throwing a lance is a form of "using" it, since the lance's weapon entry doesn't specifically state that it must be used in a melee attack to deal the bonus damage.
Relevant entry:
Spoiler:
Lance
Benefit: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
Say I have a mounted character with the Charging Hurler feat, and a lance with the Throwing enchantment on it, can I toss the lance at a target and have it deal double damage, since it is indeed being used from the back of a charging mount?
I assume if the lance is being thrown as an Improvised Weapon instead, it loses the quality that causes it to deal 2x damage on a mounted charge, but if not, could the same thing be achieved via a combination of the Throw Anything, Quick Draw, and Two-Handed Thrower feats? Potentially allowing for iterative ranged attacks if combined with some other shenanigans?
Obviously the intention is for a lance to deal bonus damage on a melee attack, because you are using the mount's momentum to deliver the blow with substantially more force than a normal humanoid could achieve on foot. Throwing a lance from the back of a mount flies in direct opposition to the physics of this attack. But from a strict reading of the rules it seems to me that a lance can indeed be thrown for the bonus damage multiplier. Am I missing something?
