nickabbey's page

Lots of folks offered very helpful insights, but MrCharisma's answer really helped clarify things the most.

1) I was definitely confusing casting and delivering touch spells .
2) I incorrectly thought that using the offhand attack to deliver the touch spell counted as a spellstrike attack.

On #2, I basically was thinking that the offhand touch to deliver the spellstrike functioned identically to using the primary hand weapon attack to deliver the spellstrike. In hindsight, spellstrike clearly states that it works with a weapon attack. Unarmed strike offhand touch attack is not a weapon attack.

Getting this goes a long way towards understanding the mechanics of the class.

Collectively, you have all been quite helpful.

Thanks much!

wasn't able to look at this over the past couple of days, but looks like quite a few offered help. Thanks! I'll digest this stuff and hopefully get myself sorted with everyone's comments.

nickabbey wrote:

Next round, I take a 5 foot step and take a full round attack with both a standard weapon and a touch to deliver my spell.

You cannot do this. Delivering a held spell is a standard action. You need to use the Spellstrike class feature if you want to both attack with your weapon and deliver your held spell in the same turn (in which case it's no longer a touch).

This is unclear to me... I was under the impression that Spell combat allowed me to make the attack and then deliver the held touch spell in the same round. If I can swing my sword (std action) and then cast a touch spell, (std action), why wouldn't I be able to swing my sword (std action) and deliver a held touch spell (std action)? It's counter intuitive that a simple action (touching) is not permitted while a more complex action (casting) is permitted. Is there RAW somewhere that shows your interpretation to be correct?

nickabbey wrote:

If I make a standard weapon attack with the intent of delivering through spellstrike, but miss - Is it too late for me to attempt to deliver the spell by touch attack?

You can still choose to deliver it as a touch attack if you choose. The held spell is not dissipated on a missed attack. You can hold the charge indefinitely, so you can try again by either method.

I should have been more clear, I do know that the spell is not discharged if I miss. What I should have said was "Is it too late for me to attempt to deliver the spell by touch attack in the same turn?" It seems your answer above applies to the question though. It just seems odd that I could cast and hold the charge on my first turn, and discharge spellstrike with a weapon attack, cast again and touch all in the second turn, but not discharge spellstrike through a weapon attack and then deliver the held touch attack all in the second. Basically, I'm not clear on why am I able to use a standard action to cast a touch spell, but not deliver one as part of spellstrike? Isn't delivering the spell part of the casting, which is why you get the free touch after casting in the first place? As such, shouldn't delivering the held touch count as part of spell combat in the same way that casting it would?

nickabbey wrote:

I would have had to declare that I wanted to use spell combat ahead of time, and taken the weapon attack at a -2 in order to give myself the chance to deliver through the off hand

You cannot do this. Spell Combat allows you to cast a spell as part of your full attack, it does not allow you to deliver a held charge with an additional attack.

My question was based on my prior (obviously possibly erroneous) understanding of how this works... but the point wasn't about the free action, it was about needing to express that I'm using spell combat and accept the -2 on both attacks. Let's modify my question to discard the held charge, and say that I wanted to cast and touch after the weapon attack. What's the call on that? If I don't say that I'm using spell combat and take the -2 on the weapon attack, that amounts to getting the first standard attack without any penalties before electing to take the -2 for the touch spell. That can't be right. Declaring that I intend to take the penalty on both is a requirement of being able to attempt both, no?

Remember, you only get an extra free attack at the time you cast the spell. Otherwise, you must spend a regular attack to deliver it.

HI all, I have searched and read this thread. So far I've been unable to figure out my answer, so I'm posting. Sorry if there is a result that addresses this which I have missed.

Anyway, my question is regarding how to use the mechanic per RAW.

I am playing a lvl 2 magus, and I have moved one 5 foot square away from a zombie.
I cast and held shocking grasp so that I wouldn't have to cast defensively or roll concentration to avoid an AoO.
So far, so good.
Next round, I take a 5 foot step and take a full round attack with both a standard weapon and a touch to deliver my spell.
I miss both,but retain the charged spell.
Later in the round, the Zombie misses me, so I am still holding the charged spell.
The round completes, no one else threatens me, and I start the round with the spell still held.

At this point, what I am able to do becomes unclear to me.

If I make a standard weapon attack with the intent of delivering through spellstrike, but miss - Is it too late for me to attempt to deliver the spell by touch attack?
I think the answer is yes?

I would have had to declare that I wanted to use spell combat ahead of time, and taken the weapon attack at a -2 in order to give myself the chance to deliver through the off hand (again, with a -2). Right?

It seems like a balance decision and kind of makes sense... but I'm questioning it because Magus is a new class for me. If I deliver through the weapon, I then have a chance to cast another touch spell and deliver it right away - but I could also just not take the second attack if, for example, I wanted to conserve my spells? And the price I pay for that freedom is the -2 to attack on both.