konokoni's page

Following that logic (which seems fairly sound to me) then the Bite evolution contains an obvious error.

Since it is impossible for any Eidolon with a bite attack to take this evolution, the whole text about what happens when they do is invalid. There are two possible solutions:

1. Errata to remove that entire passage from the text.
2. Errata to add text that allows this evolution to be taken more than once (and probably further text that it should not be taken more than twice - stacking the 1.5 modifiers would get obnoxious very quickly).

Agreed, especially since the text of the bite evolution strongly indicates you should be able to take it more than once. While they're at it, clarifying what happens when you take it while only having a single bite attack (the original question of this thread) would be wonderful, even if it were to just officially state that it has no effect. :D

(edited for poor grammar)

Explanation.

So in your view, the bite evolution is, in fact, useless for an eidolon with only a bite attack, and because of that Power Attack functions as one would expect.

Actually, what I found particularly interesting about your response was:

*This is actually a guessing, since an Evolution cannot be taken more than once unless specified, and the Bite evolution does not say that it can be takne more than once, it only says that if the Eidolon already possesses a Bite attack, taking this evolution gives an improvement. And the only way for an Eidolon to have a Bite attack is thanks to its Base Form*

As you note, the rules clearly state that unless specified otherwise, each evolution can be taken only once. Both the serpentine and quadruped forms gain their bite attacks from "free evolutions." The bite evolution does not specify that it can be taken more than once. Therefore, RAW, it would seem that any form with a bite is prohibited from taking the bite evolution again to get that bump to strength x 1 1/2 damage, even though the bite evolution has a contingency for what happens when you take it when already in possession of a bite. Interesting.

(edited for clarity)

Can you specify this "bite attack upgrade"? The only evolution upgrade I can see is "Improved Damage". All this does is increase the damage die by one step. This wouldn't do anything to the amount of damage dealt by a quadruped. so you would do the increased damage die + 1.5 strength.

Sorry; I'll try to make my question clearer. Basically, the rules (quote from p. 34 above) state that an eidolon that has a single natural attack applies strength modifier x 1 1/2 instead of just its strength modifier to damage. The bite evolution (quote from p. 36 above) states that when you spend a point on the bite evolution for a form that already has a bite (both the quadruped and serpentine forms) it: "allows it to deal 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier on damage rolls made with its bite."

Now, on a form that has multiple attacks (and therefore applies strength modifier x 1 to all of it's attacks) the effect of taking the bite evolution when the eidolon already has a bite is obvious: it does str mod x 1 1/2 damage on the bite and str mod x 1 damage on its other natural attacks. However, in the case of the quadruped form, it is possible to have a single natural bite attack (giving str mod x 1 1/2 as per p. 34) and then spend an evolution point on the bite evolution (giving it str mod x 1 1/2 again on its bite attack as per p. 36). So, what happens when the bite attack gets "upgraded" to str mod x 1 1/2 twice? Is the amount of str applied to damage upgraded further, or do they not stack, rendering the bite evolution useless to a quadruped with a single bite attack?

Obviously, a DM could house-rule this either way according to his or her whims. I'm just wondering if there is an official rule somewhere that governs what happens in such circumstances.

On page 34 of the Advanced Player's Guide Final Playtest PDF, it is stated that:

All natural attacks are made using the eidolon’s full base attack bonus unless otherwise noted. Eidolon attacks add the eidolon’s Strength modifier to the damage roll, unless it is its only attack, in which case it adds 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier.

On page 36, in the evolutions section, the rules for the bite evolution are as follows:

Bite (Ex) : An eidolon’s maw is full of razor-sharp teeth, giving it a bite attack. This attack is a primary attack. The bite deals 1d6 points of damage (1d8 if Large, 2d6 if Huge). If the eidolon already has a bite attack, this evolution allows it to deal 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier on damage rolls made with its bite.

So, what happens if you take the quadruped base form (which receives only a bite attack to start with) and then spend one evolution point on the bite attack "upgrade?" Are there any rules that govern situations where there are multiple "bonuses" to the amount of strength damage that applies to an attack? Do the bonuses stack somehow, further increasing the amount of damage the eidolon gets from its strength (strength bonus x2 perhaps)? Or do they not stack at all, rendering the bite evolution upgrade useless for the above-mentioned eidolon? My intuition suggests that allowing some form of stacking would be fair, as the only way to achieve this would be to only have one attack on the eidolon. However, I'd prefer an official answer to this question, assuming there is one to be found.

EDIT: Furthermore, assuming that stacking is allowed, what happens when the eidolon Power Attacks? Does that damage get upgraded as well?