jthighwind's page

Thank you for your input. My friends and I haven't posted because we wanted to see other's thoughts before adding our reasoning.

The idea we developed is the character has lost a limb, they constantly feel a slight pain where the limb was, but at times they feel a jolt of pain which requires a save not to suffer some kind of temporary penalty. There's no loss of hitpoints involved, this is long after the limb is gone.

We actually aren't looking to put this in a game. It's just a discussion of the best way the mechanics could handle phantom pain based on whatever rules we can find that already exist, or at least the spirit of the rules where lacking.

Fort saves generally apply when external forces act upon the character: heat, cold, overexertion, poison, etc. Whereas will saves take effect on anything affecting the mind or soul.

I reason it's a will save. Phantom pain is entirely in the mind, when the mind tries to interact with the missing limb it mistakenly interprets the lack of sensation as pain. The limb, or lack of limb that is, sends no signal to the mind and therefore shouldn't be a fort save. One could even argue the pain is an issue of the soul which is trying to interact through body no longer there.

Personally I'm playing around with the idea that phantom pain could be ruled as an extraordinary curse of illusory pain. The idea of a non-magical illusion is weird but the actual pain of phantom pain is truly illusory in nature; even it's name "Phantom Pain" is derivative (at least etymologically) on the idea of a Phantasm.

Although this phantasm isn't magical or visible it is mental and perceived only by the subject, totally in the mind. It is a personalized mental impression, all in their heads. Additionally, of the varying illusion types, phantasms (along with figments) remain even after a character successfully disbelieves the illusion.

Here's some quotes from the SRD for easy reference:

Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.

Phantasm: a phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression, all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see. Third parties viewing or studying the scene don't notice the phantasm. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

Some friends and I were parleying upon if Pathfinder had a ruling on phantom pain. If a save were to be required based upon a phantom pain, would that save be will, fortitude, or perhaps a will save then later fortitude saves if the will save fails?

We discussed this at length; what would you rule and why based upon what existing rules?

Sorry about the drama.

In the game I'm in now the world is limited to a single city. Going by the old 3.5 DMG, the city would be somewhere between small and large. There aren't any wizards in the higher levels, at least not that would be friendly, and the DM is very stingy with gold. To give an example, I've been saving since level 8 to gain the funds for permanency of Arcane Sight and I still don't have them. Without gaining new spells as a wizard I will either not be gaining new spells, or at the cost of gaining any other wealth or items.

It would be easy for a DM to work around this limit and throw in a few more scrolls in the loot, but he shouldn't have too.

For most classes there are multiple goodies specific to the class. Fighters get High BAB + Feats, Rogues get Sneak Attack + Talents, Rangers get Ranged/TWF + Animal + 1/2 Druid stuffs, Wizards get Spells + School Powers.

Generally when you take a prestige you give something up for a payoff, something to make the character special. Fighters prestige to one with the same BAB but lose their feats , Rogues keep Sneak Attack but lose Talents. Wizards I can understand lose their school powers, but to also take a hit on their spell growth is overly damaging.

How could this rule be considered balanced while not limiting the highest spells of other comparable casters such as Cleric prestiges?

Wow, what a horrible rule.

Unless you have a DM who either throws money at you, or lets you sell magic items without restriction, and then also doesn't dick you around on what scrolls are available, let alone even exist, then there would never be an instance in which you'd want to prestige off of wizard.

What a stroke of idiocy in ruling that when a wizard gains new areas of mastery they forget to improve the very core element that makes the class worthwhile at all. This is like making every fighter prestige class have a BAB advancement of 0. Sure you can gain new special abilities, but you're now at a near total halt on what made your class special in the first place.

I feel like stabbing someone.

I'm in a pickle with my DM.

I'd like to take my level 10 Wizard (Diviner) and move into Pathfinder Savant.
Pathfinder Savant reads:

"At 2nd level and beyond, a Pathfinder savant gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Pathfinder savant, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day."

He believes that the two spells per level that you gain in Wizard are "benefits of a character of that class". Which would mean that although I would be able to cast higher level spells, I wouldn't have any of those higher level spells to cast unless I found/bought scrolls or spellbooks with them already in.

He also sites the d20pfsrd Mystic Theurge Eratta from the site which reads as such:

"Does a wizard (or other character that uses a spellbook), receive bonus spells to add to his spellbook when he gains a level in a prestige class that grants an increase to spellcasting?

No. The increase to his spellcasting level does not grant any other benefits, except for spells per day, spells known (for spontaneous casters), and an increase to his overall caster level. He must spend time and gold to add new spells to his spellbook."

This just seems rather stifling as an advancing spellcaster, something which hurts wizards but not sorcerers. The whole thing just seems off. Which of us is right?