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I was wondering if alchemist would have to call mutagen enhancement bonus? if it were seperated from belt slot improvements it would make it more likely to be specialized in. as is right now, i think i'd rather just by the belts.

perhaps call it a transformation bonus. and have it relate flavor wise to a change in appearance.


what would be the best setup for an Arcane Archer then?
6 fighter
1 sorc (arcane with wep bond) or 1 wiz
the class itself always seemed messy to me, but i like the ability to track of the ranger vs fighter and his extra feats.

ps (i still think a lvl 1 summoner eidolon can be made tiny and very stealthy, 1 heck of a scout imo.


though i love pathfinder, i tend to lean toward cross classing all my characters. so i have a build question

Say the goal is arcane archer.

6 ranks of Ranger gets u an animal companion
1 rank of summoner for the arcane spell requirement
1-x ranks of arcane archer

i know the eidolon doesn't lvl up b/c of the prestige class, but would the character have both an animal companion AND an eidolon? if so, how do u think they would react to eachother.


ouch, upon ur comments i realize that the summoner aspect would drag, but it is still an alternative to get Dragon disciple. /shrug, back to the drawing board


Did you say one level of summoner as in---> Summoner 1/DD 1?

monk 4/summoner 1/DD+

Disciple only requires u speak draconic, 5 ranks of knowledge arcana, and ability to cast 1st lvl arcane spells spontaneously.


so, looking back at prestige classes make me realize that instead of sorc u could roll 1 lvl summoner and go DD. thinking of builds the optimum atm would probably be Monk for 4+ lvls, 1 summoner, then enough Disciple to make me giddy, (4 lvl's min). if u go the full 10 that would allow for u to cast as an 8th lvl summoner. then 2 lvls more of Summoner and u can give urself improved damage evolution on ur fists to make up for some lost monk lvls. overall, seems pretty strong for the PC while still getting a decent Eidolon.


so nobody thinks the summoner is a little vanilla and needs viable feats?


i'm sorry, but at lvl 1 u can summon a monster for 1 round.
now look at other end, at lvl 20 u can summon 1 monster for 20 min, with 16 cha that means 6 times a day, that is a total of 2 hrs of gametime able to use this ability.
u get 1 pet, usually combat all the time. if it dies early in day, odds are you will die later in the day.

plz, give us back min/lvl. if necessary make it cap out such as cleric healing (max 10min).

also, i agree about the limit of 1 summon spell at a time, already broke that one :) good call.

my question is if we use the natural ability, does it mean if we have the learned spell on our list do they count eachother? would make that spell useless on list if it does.

oh and on another note, why is this class called a summoner? Conj spec'd wiz seems to OWN the name.

this concept seems more like a hunter from WOW, rofl /slap self


Hi, i recently began playing a summoner and in order to fit in i made him lvl 8. at first lvl i took spell focus conj feat and the augment summoning feat.

After that i hit a real roadblock. 70% of the summoner is his pets and there is only 1 feat for them. true i could decide to join melee and go nuts, but i prefer to focus on my creations.

suggestion is in 3.5PH2 there is imbue summoning metamagic feat
allows u to apply a spell of 3rd lvl or lower to a creature as it comes into play. such as invis.

or take a note from libris mortis and maybe feats for keeping pets under ur control. eidolon is nice, but the ability to summon is vanilla

Here is a feat that popped into head and i <3

Pet combat Maneuvers. make summon'd pets easier to tactically herd around map. things like flank while avoiding attacks of op. a person can move around threat space. a pet can't? maybe make it a prereq of intelligence? or even better, have the feat be similar to augment summoning but increase the summon'd creatures intelligence and wisdom.