jrtykohn's page

jrtykohn wrote:

shroudb wrote:

PF2 is stated, in a lot of places, to use casual language.

It's hard to imagine that an Action, that uses a Skill, is not a Skill Action given that premise.

Agreed that it is very casual. I find it frustrating when trying to figure things out since I tend to be hyper-literal. Casually defined terms make head hurt.

So doing a skill check as part of a reaction whether it be disarm or part of the aid reaction you think is also a Skill Action? Like using One For All swashbuckler feat or the Inspire Competence Bard cantrip?

Ugh why can't they just define it that action/activity using a skill check is defined as a skill action!?! >:(

well, the closest you get, (which isn't far from what you are asking) is in the general rules of the game:

Quote:

Skill Checks and Skill DCs

Source Core Rulebook pg. 449 1.1
Pathfinder has a variety of skills, from Athletics to Medicine to Occultism. Each grants you a set of related actions that rely on you rolling a skill check. Each skill has a key ability score, based on the scope of the skill in question. For instance, Athletics deals with feats of physical prowess, like swimming and jumping, so its key ability score is Strength. Medicine deals with the ability to diagnose and treat wounds and ailments, so its key ability score is Wisdom. The key ability score for each skill is listed in Chapter 4: Skills. No matter which skill you’re using, you calculate a check for it using the following formula.
Skill check result = d20 roll + modifier of the skill’s key ability score + proficiency bonus + other bonuses + penalties

When an ability calls for you to use the DC for a specific skill, you can calculate it by adding 10 + your total modifier for that skill.

From my perspective that's a leap even if i agree with you on the probable intention of that definition. I just wish they used the terminology "Activities with Skill Checks" for Ancestors Mystery table. Kind of makes my idea of prepping skills for the aid reaction useless since the ancestor changes before you get to roll the check.

PF2 is stated, in a lot of places, to use casual language.

It's hard to imagine that an Action, that uses a Skill, is not a Skill Action given that premise.

Agreed that it is very casual. I find it frustrating when trying to figure things out since I tend to be hyper-literal. Casually defined terms make head hurt.

So doing a skill check as part of a reaction whether it be disarm or part of the aid reaction you think is also a Skill Action? Like using One For All swashbuckler feat or the Inspire Competence Bard cantrip?

Ugh why can't they just define it that action/activity using a skill check is defined as a skill action!?! >:(

jrtykohn wrote:

Question: What are Skill Actions? Are "Skill Actions" only the actions listed in Table 4-1 of the Core Rule Book?

No, they're any action that uses a Skill. So Battle Medicine and Bon Mot 100% qualify as Skill Actions.

Activities would also qualify if they contain such actions, though there aren't many to be had in Oracle anyway.

I'm not saying that I confidently agree or disagree, but with what you are claiming is there any supporting evidence of this at all?

Pardon my complaining about the vagueness of this specific term used a few times in the CRB and APG,
However, it doesn't appear to state anywhere that anytime you do a skill check you are completing a skill action. Based on the following:

Page 234 of CRB "When you're actively using a skill, often by performing one of it's actions, you might attempt a skill check:..."

there isn't a direct correlation to rolling a skill check, using a skill action, or actively using a skill. It seems it would have been easy enough anywhere to define that a Skill Action occurs within any activity requiring a skill check (or not using the term). The only time actions are EXPLICITLY defined as SKILL ACTIONS are in table 4-1 of CRB. These include Trip, Balance, Climb, Lie, Pick a Lock, Gather Information ... etc.

This list of Skill Actions then appears on page 235. None of which include new activities gained by feats. However there is later mention of subordinate actions. Actions which take place in an activity.. ie when an activity says "attempt to Disarm, make a strike, .... " etc.

Nowhere is BON MOT or BATTLE MEDICINE clearly defined as a Skill Action. Battle Medicine Activity clearly goes out of its way to OMIT EXPLICITLY STATING that you perform a modified Treat Wounds action that cannot remove wounded condition (which is defined as a skill action in the table). Instead You perform a Medicine check with similar DCs and successes as Treat Wounds that doesn't remove the wounded condition. At the same time it's very understandable that the CRB is a 600+ book with plenty of things missing, plenty of terms kept in from the playtest that needed to be updated, etc. It's been written by amazing fantasy designers, writers, tabletop players, and thankfully not by some legal firm. So again pardon this lawyering, it's just clearly very vague what a Skill Action is if it includes more than that table of CRB.

Question: What are Skill Actions? Are "Skill Actions" only the actions listed in Table 4-1 of the Core Rule Book?

Context: An Oracle with the "Ancestors" Mystery must perform a flat DC check when performing a Strike Action, Skill ACTION, or Cast A Spell Action depending on which ancestor/ghost/spirit/etc is influencing the character. The Oracle may get bonuses on Strikes (atk&mg), Skill CHECKS, and Spell Damage (non-cantrip, damaging) depending on the influence.

Examples:
So a Bon Mot would not be a skill action but would give me bonus for being a Diplomacy skill check? A Battle Medicine is not a skill action but would give me a bonus on a Medicine Skill check?

Activities worded like "Make an Athletics check it gains the success and critical success effects of the Trip/Disarm/Shove action" DO NOT count as Skill Actions?
ie. Battle Medicine (make a medicine check, gains the same effects as Treat Wounds)

Activites worded like "Make a Strike and a Disarm, multiple attack penalty increases at the end of the activity" DO include Skill Actions?
ie. Opportune Riposte(choose to make a Disarm or Strike)

Obviously final say always goes to GM, but before I choose this character concept I want to understand what the rules are MEANT to be. Sorry for the wordiness.

Advance thanks to all responses.