Alrich's page

No problem.

I'm back home and can post from my computer again! WooT!

This is an outstanding find. Alrich states as the whispers grow faint.

is the resource considered to be in the square we are in or in an adjacent one. If so, which. Thanks.

Fortunately, we have a mill. However, I suggest we ensure that this resource is preserved rather than squandered or wasted. I suggest we continue or explorations around our home with haste.

I am ok with the slowdown 'cause I hate phone posting.

I agree and suggest we continue to explore this area without delay.

It appears we have reached an impasse. Perhaps this warg is a shapechanging druid.

The 24th and the 31st I will be flying and might not be able to post. I hope to post in between the dates, though.

My thoughts are to go after the critters. I'm itching for a fight and I have never eaten wolf or worg. Never knew when my next meal would be growing up and I can't really say that I know now. The skins could keep the less well-off of our community warm when the winter comes around and I am sure we could use the meat for jerky and the sinews for making bows. But, to be honest, I am itching for a fight.

@ Korvin, Yes. See spoiler

Alrich looks toward the curious looking dog and the voices grow almost completely quiet and he speaks...

Do you speak common?

and then continues in another language

and then another language

When he finishes speaking, the voices grow louder once more and words from a great variety of languages can be picked out but without intelligible sentences.

Lead the way, High Lord Kezzin

With that, Alrich turns to follow the High Lord and tries to discern what has drawn his attention.

perception 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (9) + 2 = 11

If Kezzin's urging doesn't give Alrich another chance at hearing, just ignore the roll...

Works for me, thanks

perception 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (10) + 4 = 14

Edit Note: My roll for this circumstance should be two lower, a 12

Or, we can go counter-clockwise. I am good with either

Are we just going to cross using our horses guys?

How big is the river?
(apparent) depth), width, speed

Does it look like something our horses can take?

"Claiming the hex and building a farm and apiary will generate and average of 2.75BP/rd after consumption, though with a start of cost of 9BP, a cost that would be made up over about 7 rounds. There would be a 25% chance of generating unrest on the stability roll."

After a moment when the whispers grow into an angry chorus and the wind whips about his shoulders, he adds emphatically

We claim this land for New Celtara. he states and places a small stake in the ground. A stake with a string of bones tied to it.

Yes, yes, it is ours now he continues more quietly and the chorus hushes itself to a low whisper once more.

If we are not going to claim this land, just say so. :P To DM Patcher, I didn't officially have that on my equipment list but impromptu added it as the villagers gave us some supplies

Alrich laughs and the symphony of whispering voices surrounding him grow completely silent for the first time.

Despite my instinctive desire not to, I find that joke remarkably entertaining.

After a moment's pause, the whispering begins anew.

So, per First Lord Jarix's request and that of my fellow High Lord, Korvin, I suggest we move off to investigate the plains to our west without further delay. Any other suggestions?

That would be the plains hex without a road to the immediate west of the one we are in and bordering the forest.

Note that inspection reveals the following for current city/kingdom:

Average Economy BP produced each turn from economy roll is 3.2
Average Stability BP produced from stability roll is o.6 BP
Actual Consumption BP produced each month is 2 BP
Average BP Yield produced each month is 1.8 BP

Let it be noted that I have been playing with the numbers "outloud" but support the annexation, farm, and apiary.

:P

I think it best to put these in spoilers so as not to clutter up the thread too much.

But, to be clear, as a player I am partial to the idea of annexing the land and building a farm.

:D

My apologies, I'm crunching too much math (and thinking "out loud") and just need to step back and have fun. :)

Of course, maths is fun.

Hmmm... reducing consumption would be even better than an "effective" +5 because no matter if you pass or fail the roll, you will be retaining that BP.

But I see where you are coming from. By adding that hex, you are concerned we will be adding a slight (I think 5%) chance of failure on all of our checks.

I, personally, would rather not have the threat of us bleeding ourselves dry with consumption.

I'm fine with that and was just throwing out food for thought.

Of course, this will cost 3 BP to get the hex and farm which means we will need to have all of our checks (two per turn) not affected by that 5% for three turns to break even for the BP spent. Any failure on stability (due to that 5%) would push us back a turn in recouping the spent BP. Any failure on economy (due to the 5%) would push us back two turns in recouping our spent BP before we begin to gain from having less consumption. Plus, the BP spent on the hex and farm could possibly be spent to purchase something else and increase our economy (and possibly stability) further. Thus, that 5% difference in economy success may be 10% difference (and possibly the same for stability) not to mention that an extra bonus to economy may be enough to not only pass but push to a higher bracket giving an additional plus one BP.

I'm just pointing out that when calculating totals based upon continued success, the chance of success drops and by dropping the chance each time, the overall chance sinks at an increasing rate.

I don't think we need to declare until the end of the month when the we spend BP.

Once we have done a circuit of the hexes surrounding our city, Jarix will defer to Irikar as to which direction to take. Jarix is a leader that knows how to delegate responsibility.

Each month, except month zero, starts with the upkeep phase (stability, pay consumption, magic items-modified, unrest, in that order) unless DM Patcher has decided something different. In the improvement phase, hexes can be claimed.

Per DM Patcher's above post, it appears he is approaching this in a more fluid manner and allowing us to claim hexes now without having completed the upkeep phase. But, we haven't made a stability check to reduce unrest (currently zero) or gain a BP (a successful result with no unrest).

Wouldn't reducing consumption by 1 be like an effective +5 to economy each turn since we would be 'gaining' a BP? Thus, by annexing a plains and building a farm we would essentially be gaining and losing this:

Economy: +4
Loyalty: -1
Stability: -1

Once the Apiary is built the total would look like this:
Economy: +10
Loyalty: 0
Stability: -1

Not to mention we will be gaining a road and a river hex. This will provide us with boosts to the economy later on as well. Overall I think it is a very lucrative endeavor and will fall in line with my character's line of thinking: food is good =)

That "effective" plus five to the economy (+1 BP) is one that would be applied if and only if the economy roll (1d20+E) beat the control DC (10+size) of currently 11 but would be 12 with the annexation of another hex. If that roll is not successful, zero BP is gained. Also, a successful stability roll (made each turn, IIRC) gives 1BP (if no unrest) or reduces unrest by one if it exists. There are two chances to fail each and every turn: income (economy roll) and stability check (stability roll). Increasing the control DC increases the difficulty of both those rolls.

Just a thought to keep track of, but perhaps I am overthinking.

The thought is comparing the surety of having one fewer BP of consumption each turn versus the potential each turn that the change of one on the DC for each die roll (stability, economy) would be the difference in losing all BPs for economy and/or not gaining one BP for stability.

Just a thought.

I've been rethinking some things.

Annexing the hex will raise consumption. So, we can raise our consumption by one (for the cost of 1 BP) so that we can lower it by two (for the cost of 2 BP more) while simultaneously increasing the difficulty of all our checks by one.

Point being that this will raise the difficulties of ALL our rolls by one.

Would it be better to build more bonuses into our rolls (more buildings that give bonuses to economy, loyalty, stability) before we increase the difficulty of our rolls?

Just a thought.

I am working under the assumption that we can explore this hex in one day due to the speed of our mounts.

Time is of the essence, in my opinion. I say we should push on throughout the day, exploring. Then, I tink we should rest and determine our new direction, if any change is required, in the morning. Any other suggestions? What say you, First Lord? Alrich asks as the winds begin to whip around him.

Let us be off then Alrich bruskly states and with that, there is a swirl of the wind around him and his mount, drawing a whinny and quieting the whispering voices.

who has a speed of 20?

Both Alrich and Ninin

Alrich laughs and quickly responds,

If put in that manner, I cannot resist.

As he speaks the leaves move on the ground around him and whispering voices can be heard on the wind.

Yes, yes. The time is drawing near Alrich quietly responds to the voices.

This may seem an odd question, but I am curious as to how we will be counting days and travel.

From the River Kingdoms book for a party with a speed of twenty:

explore grassland 2 days
cross grassland hex 8 hours

So, when we move from our starting hex to explore the sw hex (or, se for that matter), do we have to travel eight hours to go from here to there or is that included in the 2 days time?

IOW, would it require 2 days per hex in grasslands (3 days for a forested hex) while going in a circle or will we need to calculate travel time (center of one hex to center of another, etc.) separate from exploring time for the same hex? (As opposed to merely counting travel time when passing through a hex without exploring it...)

I am just hoping to ensure that we calculate correctly and return on time.

Ok, so we build a Butcher and a mill in Month 0. And we begin by exploring the hexes along the river with the road - to the southeast of the city.

@DM Patcher - are you going to set this up as a campaign so that all the new posts show up in our Campaign list when we check.

I thought it was a mill and a smith?

Alrich pauses a moment and then speaks.

Soldiers do not go hungry unless it is winter and they are at war with someone in a better position than they. Otherwise, they just take someone else's food.

Alrich finishes his statement with a laugh and then continues.

But, I see your point.

I wish to be a part of something greater than a nomadic tribe like those roaming Belkzen. There is work to do now to bring that about.

The unexplored wilds to the west of us could contain any number of dangers waiting to threaten our toehold and should be explored. The plains surrounding us on all other sides should be annexed quickly, in my opinion, so that we can grow that food we will need before the winter arrives. Also, controlling the old road will allow us to establish a trade route.

What else do we see before us, High Lords?

About this:

"My vote stands with this, but I think Msosth is right abut the Southern and Eastern borders being water."

I had originally stated easter but southern and eastern both is good for me.

Yes, we hope to build something upon this foundation we are setting.

I vote mill and smith(or the equivalent). With light taxation, no promotions and no festivals.

That should put at the following, before ruler.

Economy: +0+1+1+1=+3
Loyalty: +2-1-1=+0
Stability: +2+2-1=+3

I will echo Falger's choice, here at post 68.

This leads to my following choices for those mentioned by DM Patcher:

step 1.
With Jarix at ruler, I vote we place his bonus in Economy.

step 3.
mill and smith

Water on the east border ok?

step 6.
light taxation, no promotions and no festivals.

The result will be:

E+7
L+0
S+3

and 3 BP

Could you guys your post agreement or preference for another choice?

I've been doing my duties as a spymaster and noticed that the other settlement is about to leave for the Kobold's claw. We may not have such close neighbors soon.

Excellent work, Korvin.

This should give us a leg up in building since each hex must have a road before being developed and there are no roads in their vicinity.

I will be running a game IRL Saturday, so I'm not sure how much chance I will have to contribute if the IC/game thread starts tomorrow.

Kezzin wrote:

Irikar Vareth wrote:

One of the reasons I'm asking is because of the second character idea -- I have a few ideas of what could be fun to play -- but I don't want to step on people's toes by taking a role they wanted (at the same time, won't make a character just to fill a role).

I agree we should not make additional characters just to fill a role, but it doesn't hurt, if you are going to make another character, to have a role or two in mind.

Like I said, I don't want to step on toes or take anyone's intended spot -- I have 3 ideas rolling around and will probably make NPCs out of the ones I don't build -- hence my asking.

Something to think about is that characters will often fill a niche within the party as well as a ruling position. So, unless we all switch characters at the same time, if one of use decides to switch characters that will leave the same party niche and same ruling position open. But, our party is large enough and with enough overlap in casting power that it might not matter.

Just a thought.

Also to be noted is that, unless I am mistaken, a road must be built in an area before it can be developed. But, going straight downriver we can develop without spending BP on roads. Plus, once those first four (with road and river in each hex) have been claimed, we will get S+1 and E+2 as a bonus.

@ DM Patcher
Are we correct in assuming that the roads on the map actually function as roads with respect to the kingdom building rules?

Korvin wrote:

Ooh, but claiming hexes increase the kingdom size, right? I read forest tiles can reduce consumption by 1.

It does. So claiming a forest is a net of zero, but I don't think there is anything you can put there to further decrease consumption (although it's entirely possible I've missed something). Whereas grasslands (and hills at a slightly higher start up cost) will cost +1 consumption, but the building options can be up to -3, netting a -2 overall.

Still overall, it would probably be a good idea after we explore at least 1 hex of grasslands for the farm, to explore a couple woodlands hexes, if we can find one with a valuable resource it would be worth it claim on round 3, because a camp on such a site is very efficient versus the cost, IMHO.

A Royal Reserve (10BP) gives S+2 and reduces consumption by 1. A forest is good place to add these in since it might be a waste in spaces where other developments could be added.

farm building would be open space development

Step 2 - Claim hexes. This is where you claim the hex you'll be staying in. Since you've already decided where your village is, this step is completed.

Step 5 - Open Space development. This step will not be possible during Month Zero as you cannot have open space development in the same tile as a city.

I posted this in the other thread. Here is, essentially, the summary of Month Zero. The Income and Event phase is skipped because you are merely establishing this month.

Summary for Month Zero:

Just before the campaign starts, we go through Month Zero, where you have no Hex. Without a Hex, you ignore phase 1 of the process, which is Upkeep. This leads us to the Improvement phase.

Step 1 - Select leadership. As the rules mention, this is the step in which you fill the vacant slot. Your only slot is Ruler at the moment. You unlock the other leadership slots by building certain buildings.

Step 2 - Claim hexes. This is where you claim the hex you'll be staying in. Since you've already decided where your village is, this step is completed.

Step 3 - Establish and Improve cities. You have already established your city. Since you are located in plains, this process takes no time, and you may construct buildings.

Take a look at this.

This is your city district sheet. What you do this step is spend your BP to build buildings. For this special month, you have no restrictions regarding the amount of buildings you can build - meaning you can build so long as your BP holds.

Essentially, you agree on what you wish to build.

If you want me to, I can fill it out the grid with buildings as you build cities - making it look like this.

However, be wary of your consumption. You will consume 2 BP at the beginning of the game (1 for hex, 1 for city), which grants unrest if you do not have the BP.

Step 4 - Build Roads. An automated process. There is no drawback to building roads apart from the BP cost. Every 4th tile with a road gives you +1 economy, and every 8th tile with a road gives you +1 stability. I do not have a reliable way to draw this on a map, so I recommend you simply decide to build roads in all tiles.

Step 5 - Open Space development. This step will not be possible during Month Zero as you cannot have open space development in the same tile as a city.

Step 6 - Edicts. Lastly, you can choose these. Be mindful of your consumption, however.

This is it for Month Zero.

Step 1.

Step 3.
What do we want to build?
Mill (6BP, E+1, S+1) seems to be everybody's first choice since it is a prereq for a carpenter.
Saving two BP for upkeep seems also to be agreed upon.
That leaves 7BP.
Two choices are:
Smith (6BP, E+1, S+1) Note that a number of buildings fit this...
Butcher (6BP, E+1, L+1)

I am for a Smith. Any other suggestions or preferences?

Step 6.
I vote for the following edicts:
Taxation None (L+1)
Promotion Token (1BP, S+1)
Festivals None (L-1)

The lack of taxation cancels the lack of festivities and our Stability will increase by one for a total cost of 1BP. This would leave us with 2BP to pay upkeep next turn.

Any other suggestions for step 6?

Now, we just need to hear from the morning crew. :)

So, what are everybody's ideas for a ruler? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that we need to pick that first.

At least some of our group does not wish to make extra characters.

So, given that there will be open spots, we need a ruler type, and some people were willing to make extra characters if need be, would we rather add another player, Dax with Jarix, a sorcerer with an 18 charisma; have some of us make extra characters one of which would be the ruler; use an NPC for a ruler (Elise), or choose Alrich because he is the only current character with a charisma over ten.

My vote:
As of now, I would say add Jarix (Dax), but I don't speak for the party.

Note: If DM Patcher agreed to Falger's suggestion, post 35 (I think), the best we would start with would be a +3 (same as Alrich but less than Elise (+5) and Jarix(+4) although some would bump to a +4 before Alrich but still be behind Elise and bump to a five after Jarix would.

I kind of like the First Lord/High Lord idea that was floated.

Given our party make up, how about something a little more gobliny/monstary (look I'm making up words) like: Boss, Big Boss, Boss Boss/Grand Poobah/Biggest Boss/et c.

Silly me didn't even realize Kezzin had floated that when I posted "my" idea for first among equals, the exact words used by Kezzin.

Possible Trait:

Societal Helper: Known for spending years going from town to town and only helping the weak and the injured despite continual prejudice has given Msosth a reputation to honesty and safety.

Benefit: +1 when in any Leadership role which promotes trust related to Stability or Loyalty -- Councilor, General, Grand Diplomat, High Priest, Marshal, Treasurer, Warden
_________________

For the town, I think we should get:

Brewery: +1 Loyalty, +1 Economy
Baker: +1 Stability, +1 Economy

Leaves us with 3BP, we can get a house and a Tradesman or Stable next turn.

I think Brewery is Tier 2.

Have we figured out what to do about the ruling position?
Elise (party made NPC, Celtaran Princess) Ch 20
Alrich Ch 16
bring in Dax (Sorcerer Ch 16, IIRC) to be the ruler and have 7 members?
Anyone else have something over 10?

what title to use?
1. The First of New Celtara short for The First Among Equals of New Celtara (borrowed from the Wheel of Time, seems good for when one player will be a ruler with other players in rulership positions) has my vote. :)
2. Mayor?
3. Anything else?

Any other ideas?

Here is my suggestion for the first build:

Mill (6BP), +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Shop (8BP), +500GP Base Value, +1 Economy
Tenement (1BP), Unrest +2

My goal is to boost the economy since that is what we are lacking as a NG kingdom. The unrest from the Tenement should only last 1 month (after turning it into a house), and if we do it at the start, it wont be as bad. We can turn it into a house for 2BP later and build another 'improved' building next to it.

My other suggestion would be to have the ruler focus on economy and we can build something else?

I think we would need to get a ruling on that.

Unlike economy, stability, and loyalty which are added up each turn and recalculated, unrest carries over and is adjusted every turn by what new happens (new buildings, events, edicts etc.). Buildings affect unrest only for the turn they are created. So, (I think that) if a tenement is built in one turn it affects unrest by 2 that turn and upping it to a house would not remove that penalty other than the one change in unrest awarded for building a house. A I understand it (quite possibly incorrectly), it is best to purchase buildings that cause unrest in the same turns as those that reduce it: for instance a tenement in the same turn as a temple or perhaps a house in the same turn as a brothel. Purchasing buildings such as houses and temples when there is no unrest wastes their ability to reduce it as unrest cannot have a negative score and buildings only modify unrest the first time after creation.

But, perhaps DM Patcher will rule it as you describe.

Even if he does rule it as retroactively removing the penalty, the first time we make a roll we will have a -2 penalty to all the rolls (economy and loyalty and stability) DM Patcher has us make. Failure on economy will lead us with no BP in the next turn.

Not building the tenement, would make our economy roll two higher, not to mention that if that penalty would cause us to fail we would gain no BPs. Also, unspent BP carry over.

Depending upon how DM Patcher intends to adjudicate the rules, I would go with building the mill (6 BP, E+1, S+1, a prerequisite for a carpenter IIRC, T2?) with either a smith (6 BP, E+1, S+1, note that a number of buildings match that criteria) or a butcher (6 BP, E+1, L+1) if we would wish to spread the non-economic bonus up instead of concentrating it.

Further, with limited leadership positions in use, I don't know if the starting DC will be 20...

Does that make sense?

Was there some reason as to really want the shop to get that +500 base value on the first turn? I am not fully familiar with all the rules, so perhaps I am missing something.

Alrich has a 16.

The way I do it in my RL game, I don't split experience between the eight characters - the way we do it is: I divide the amount of experience gained with the amount of characters present (2-5), and then that value gets added to the "party experience tab" - everyone levels at the same rate.

Which does remind me, I will be using the "Step-based Advancement System".

I approve of these methods! :D

A while back I cam to the conclusion that leveling players at differing times ends up making the game not fun for those leveling behind. since then, I have basically run where I leveled the party every other or every third time. Very similar to the above methods.

Thanks for the link by the way. I hadn't seen that particular system before.