grotius's page

It has been my experience that men (and it's always men) that have a problem playing someone of the opposite sex are either like 10 years old or are emotionally immature.

OMG!! My ten year old son is playing a female gnome he must be gay! I'll kick him out of my game immediately and get him into some manly pursuits.

Yes! Compare with discern location and it's clear there's something askew in 3.5. It's like no one bothered to think that maybe locate object/locate creature/find the path/discern location form a spell chain, and maybe they should be scaled against each other.

To my mind, find the path should be good for threading mazes and labyrinths, or finding a village in the jungle, but discern location would be needed for "where is the Lost City" or "how do I get to the treasure vault?"

Yes, they form a spell chain.

Yes, they should be scaled against each other.

That is basic game design and what this game revision should be about.

I am wondering, in terms of what Selgard said about the DM adjudicating the spell(s) properly, whether we accept that spell returns variable results. Spells, both arcane and divine, are mystical processes; on one occasion FtP may provide a glowing path through the jungle to the Lost City. On another occassion, the caster receives an 'impression' to head West; soon after the caster comes out of the spell's trance there is a knock at the door - a merchant asks whether the PCs will do escort his caravan westwards over the Blue Mountains [hint hint].

The detail provided is different, the reliability of the spell variable and the story progresses.

Progressing the story is after all the purpose of this game mechanic.

The problem with the current mechanic for favored classes is that it punishes playing a Dwarf Wizard, for example. Under the 3.5 rules there was no penalty for that unless you multiclassed.

Please don't reply saying it doesn't punish the Dwarf Wizard, it rewards the Dwarf Cleric. That's false. The baseline race is human, and pretty much every human character will get his favored class bonus just about every level. This means losing that bonus is a punishment. If playing a non-cleric, non-fighter dwarf is automatically suboptimal, then they are being punished.

You make a fair point. The thing is whether favoured class is associated with a penalty (XP penalty) or with a bonus (extra hp or skill) it is a game mechanic and is as such easily amended or dropped altogether.

The more significant issue is what was the favoured class rule intended to achieve? I don't know if there are any designers notes specific to this issue but it would help to evaluate how successful it has been but in any event it is clear there is plent of discontent.

I think favoured class is meant to work on two levels.

One is to enhance campaign flavour by encouraging characters to match certain races and classes. Saying not only "halfling make good rogues" and "dwarves make good fighters" but also "dwarves don't make good wizard/rogues" however they could make single class wizards or rogues or fighter/wizards or cleric/rogues. But this is just about the feel of the gane and can be easily modified for any campaign.

Secondly, favoured class is intended to stop min/maxing and level dipping in a way that breaks the game. Reading the message boards it seems like there is real concern that the rules should prevent this kind of play.

The question is whether the favoured class rule achieves either of these. If it doesn't what are alternatives. I haven't seen any put forward only the suggestion to drop favoured classes.

NB I am relatively new to the message boards and am not that acquainted with all the ongoing dicussion.

The exact purpose of the spell is to find unknown locations. That is what this spell *does*.

If you've already been to the location you don't need FTP. You need Teleport. Its faster. Alot faster.

If you already know where you are going then there are already spells that will get you from where you are to where you want to be.

This is the one spell that will let you go to somewhere you've never been. That's the entire point. It is this spell's reason for existence. If you remove that from the spell, then remove the spell.

If you want some "limit" then increase the casting time and shorten the duration. Force the PC's to stop more often and cast it again. (stopping in potentially dangerous territory, and potentially having to stop for the night so the caster can regain spells). The primary spell effect however needs to remain in tact- that of finding unknown locations.

The PC's are 12th level.
They can plane hop. They can planet hop. They can raise the dead.
They can ping the far reaches of the outer planes to have their questions answered.

Why can't they find that dang city? It's just too lost.

This spell is fine.

3.5 FTP works in FR right now. Why haven't the shades already gotten all their artifacts? Nothing in 3.5 prevents them from using an ancient Netherese map to know the names and look up any number of locations.

All they have needed are bards or clerics capable of casting the spell, and off they could go.
It hasn't happened yet.
It isn't likely to happen.
(ask the writers why.. heck, I dunno)

Paizo's version is weaker than the 3.5. If they didn't use it in 3.5 they are unlikely to begin doing so now.

As for Xendrik- you have to know the name of the location, or at least have Some knowledge of it. Simply saying "a ruin somewhere" shouldn't work. That leaves most of the island of X still to be explored. (since you are trying to find ruins, not locate a specific already identified ruin.)

It could be interesting to use it in Cyre though.. (or does...

I agree with this.

Seeking divine or arcane assistance in a Quest is a staple of the fantasy genre. The spell itself is a mechanic that provides an entry into roleplay. In this case getting to the location is the challenge once its' whereabouts is known. Or there may be a valid ingame reason for the location being undetectable.

Find the Path can stop a storyline stalling.

grotius wrote:

I agree with Grim, favoured classes support the idea that certain races are good at certain things.

I think that a bonus (eg. extra skill point) is better than a penalty (eg. XP penalty) just because it's more positive but also because it reinforces the idea of race/class synergy.

Shouldn't it be the features of the race that reinforce the idea of race/class synergy. The halfling gains a bonus to dex and cha, both (well, one more important than the other, but...) important rogue abilities. Additionally, its small size, as well as its bonus to acrobatics and climb checks all point to rogue. Does a halfling even need a bonus skill point per level to have better race/class synergy than say, a Dwarf, who gains no racial bonuses relevant to rogueing.

By giving the races that already have features pointing towards one class or another, it makes it even harder for a player to play a non-favored class character. I can see a dwarf Rogue who is adventuring to... maybe... return lost items and artifacts to his homeland, just as easily as I can see an off the streets halfling who has a compulsion to steal and a the capabilities to do so. So why does the halfling get more skill points when both races have synergies with the above concepts (The dwarven bonus to appraise and their stonecutting ability).

In short, favored class distinctions by the rules, whether they are bonuses or penalties, restrict player choice, and are the downfall of many an interesting character concept in favor of a stereotypical and often seen concept.

I can see what you mean. From a game design point of view it is more elegant if the race features promote the race/class synergy rather than "shoe-horning" players into making character development choices.

Although the ability to combine any two classes without penalty is one of the human race features along with bonus skill & feat. The removal of the favoured class negates a human advantage. It is possible to replace this in game mechanics terms but there is a loss of flavour for human characters who are supposed to be the ultimately adaptable race.

In my heart of hearts I would like to see conditional racial abilities that activate if they take their favored class. The whole idea behind favored classes is that once a certain race and certain class come together, that there's a certain awesome synergy from the two--I think a special power derived from that would be a lot of fun, and a bit more colorful that a +1 anything. I fully admit though that it's not a very subtle change.

That said, the idea of extra HP from a favored class makes very little sense. The idea of extra skill points suggests that certain races are able to get "a little extra" out of leveling up as their specialty class. I can really see that.

I agree with Grim, favoured classes support the idea that certain races are good at certain things.

I think that a bonus (eg. extra skill point) is better than a penalty (eg. XP penalty) just because it's more positive but also because it reinforces the idea of race/class synergy.

The idea of racial abilities developing as play progresses was kind of reflected in the Racial Paragon classes in Unearthed Arcana. I don't think it was well developed but a good idea non-the-less and may be worth revisiting in some way.

I remember playing D&D with the Basic/Expert rules. Then all Halflings were Thieves (Rogues), all Dwarves were Fighters and Elves were Magic Users (Wizards).

I suppose, but I may be mistaken, that the favoured classes exist as a legacy of those rules and to add to the race concept.

Favoured classes should stay but, as it has been pointed out, in different campaigns the specific favoured classes may need to vary. It's all about the flavour of the game in the end. Even if it's plain old vanilla.

Is it possible to use the Savage Species guidelines to estimate the level adjustment or is it just guesswork?

Set wrote:

After the Abjurant Champion came out, I was kinda hoping to see a series of School-themed Fighter/Mages. A Shadow Champion who relied on Illusions or a 'Death Knight' who combined Necromancy with the fighting arts or a 'Pokemon Trainer' who specialized in fighting alongside a Conjured Companion.

Even a Divination-themed Fighter/Mage could be pretty scary, focusing his arcane sight on his opponent to gain Insight bonuses to Attack or AC, for instance, based on his success at 'reading' them.

Wow, that actually sounds very good.

That sounds very cool indeed. The way it was described it makes them sound like school specialists wizards. Would they be the studious or would they be intuitive/spontaneous casters?

I wonder if the problem is that Paladins don't really belong in the core classes. Paladins are very flavourful and have a specific role, very good for a PrC. A non-lawful good Paladin wouldn't really be a Paladin. It sounds more like alternative (Un-) Holy Warriors are being proposed. Maybe??

I wanted to try to set up some quick house rule to grant more benefits for having Profession skills. There are points when you are expected to be able to do the things related to your job. Being an expert sailor, who still can’t maintain his balance when a ship rocks or a librarian who knows nothing about the books she manages and so on. The character can spend some ranks on those skills, but I think while characters who train at a profession should have some automatic skill with things associated with their job.

So this is just a quick and dirty rule to define about where the bonuses to those skills would be. When it says that a profession mimics a skill I mean that when making that other skill check you use either the number of ranks in that skill or the number of ranks you have in that profession minus ( 1 - 2 times number of skills that profession is mimicking ), whichever is higher, for number of ranks in that skill. Also you get a single minor ability when you put your first rank into any profession ( You get only one minor ability no matter how many profession skills you are trained in ).

The minor abilities are meant to be worth about a single skill point.

Mariner:
Mimics: Acrobatics and Climb.
Minor Ability: +1 to Acrobatics and Climb while on boat.

Service Industry:
Mimics: Diplomacy.
Minor Ability: Grants one commonly used language.

Food Gathering/Preparation:
Mimics: Perception.
Minor Ability: When you successfully forage for food you find enough food and water an additional person.

Buying and Selling:
Mimics: Appraise.
Minor Ability: Grants one commonly used language.

Research/Librarian:
Mimics: Any number of knowledge skills.
Minor Ability: Grants one non-secret language.

Con-Artist:
Mimics: Bluff and Sense Motive.
Minor Ability: Grants one commonly used language.

Bouncer:
Mimics: Intimidate and Sense Motive.
Minor Ability: +1 to your CMB to defend against maneuvers used against you.

So if...

I agree with you Profession (specify) should do more than allow you to work at a regular job.

Why do you all disdain the d12 so much? Tis a lonely life, that of the d12, to be so oft maligned.... Will you next cast a scornful eye at the greataxe? The last holdout for the d12? I say nay!!!!

We must rally to save our endangered d12's! They must be raised up and held in a position of power! The regulator of the barbarian's survival! That which determines if the Axe hits powerfully or with a whimper.
The mighty D12!!!
Save this majestic die or we shall live in a d12-less world....a place I don't want to imagine.

I agree. d12 is the most appealing, attractive, noble of all the dice.

I like the idea of skill check to cast spells!

Would it help to combine this rule with either the Spell Point or Recharge Magic variants from Unearthed Arcana which would either limit the use of spells per day or limit the rate of magic use??