I've noticed this too, with some older Maure Castle forums URLs @ http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/olderProducts/dungeon/ maureCastle and http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoInc/olderProducts/dungeon/maureCa stle both inconsistently redirecting to the main page.
And sure enough the question of the location of the Octychs has come up. So as I gather, these are the locations of Octychs we know about:
** spoiler omitted **
Now that's interesting: I wasn't aware that
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Warlock's Walk contained an octych.
I just checked the original manuscript and it's not mentioned in there (nor is the word "triangle"), so I wonder if this was added to the
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d20 version of Warlock's Walk published in OJ#23?
Some quick research found an octych mentioned in the possession of the ruling house of the Duchy of Urnst, as discovered in their vaults by the Seer of Unrst (OJ23, p. 24). He appropriated the octych, then lost it in the nearby ruins of Inverness. That summarizes the octych's presence in OJ23, and there's not one found in the Warlock's Walk trials themselves, so far as I can tell.
So, it looks like the known locations are still just:
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1. Castle Greyhawk.
2. Dragotha's Lair
3. Ghost Tower of Inverness
4. One possibly in Mordenkainen's possession?
From my POV they are in fact different, but closely-related, dungeons: ERK was Rob's original campaign dungeon for the Kalibruhn campaign setting (like Castles Blackmoore and Greyhawk were the campaign dungeons for those settings). Maure Castle was the "equivalent" to ERK in Greyhawk, but as outlined in Dungeon 112, the original levels of MC don't align (to my understanding) of the original levels in ERK. So, I think there is definitely cross-pollination going on, I'm just not sure how much the two are "the same": if it's only 30% that's potentially a big difference vs. say 70-80% similarity.
I'll see if Rob can stop by and chime in here with some more-authoritative input....
I had completely forgotten about this second Octych in the Worms AP... My players are 2 modules ahead of it. I can expect them to be owners of 2 octychs shortly (well, provided they succeed in defeating some very old undead dragon...).
If its problematic, you could always remove the second octych: there's nothing in that adventure of the following ones that require it to be present.
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Egocentrix wrote:
Mmmh after the AP, they will get the attention of so many more powers and factions (after Iggwilv, Iuz, the Circle of Eight, the thieves and Assassin's guilds of Greyhawk, the Seekers to name of few who could be harmful...)! If they manifest any interest in Maure Castle I think the Scarlet Brotherhood at least should attempt something before the end.
To that list, I would consider adding: various other independent NPCs like Mordenkainen, Circle of Eight, Rary, Drax, Vecna, etc. Or, perhaps some new evil group seeking the octychs for their own nefarious ends (this is what Mona started to do with his "Absolute Power" modules).
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Egocentrix wrote:
Thks for the suggestions above. I definitely need to design something now about the demi-planes... May be I can use the part about Kyuss in Elder Evils and design some epic additional adventure. Anyone knows if this could be relevant (I ordered it on Amazon a few days ago)?
I can't help you there, as I don't own that book.
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Egocentrix wrote:
Or populate one of the demi-planes with another world (one of the Green Ronin or Necromancer Games campaigns perhaps).
Definitely a possibility: you could always boost Vault of Larin Karr into a demi-planar dungeon level, or toss them into Lance Hawvermale's Hawkmoon setting, which is rather close to GH in feel (it could be a sister world of sorts). Dropping them into Grim from FFG could also be interesting.
Someone above suggested the demi-planes from Q1 which is another good idea, as would be using some of the Fading Lands (first created by Carl Sargent; I catalogued a bunch of them at http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_sites.html as well, and Canonfire! has done at least one postfest on them, and several more were detailed in articles (just search for "Fading Lands" without quotation marks) and in the Oerth Journal, too (see my index for pointers, though it's likely not current).
Other ideas: send them to Luna (see Return of the Eight for some ideas), or to some of the various other demi-planes already hinted at/published (EX1/2; WG6; Greek Myths area, etc. from S4; X2's Averoigne is a great candidate, too, as is the Forest of Lanterns DCC from Goodman Games). Send them forward or backward in time (Land of the Lost/Lost World/At the Earth's Core). Etc.
Gygax's Hall of Many Panes may have some interesting ideas to pillage here, too, but I've heard it's very uneven, so I wouldn't pick it up just for this if you don't already have it.
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Egocentrix wrote:
Are the Maure Castle levels of Dungeon easy to upscale for an epic party ?
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The original version of this now-differently-named phenomena will be treated in an upcoming rleases from the Original Campaign; and I was thinking about those tie-ins just recently when organizing the "CATALOG". This will account for its beginning history, at least, not-with-standing variants of such as now exist.
From the original design intent, yes these were designed to be "jumping of pads" for future adventures, but it goes without saying that I included some more interesting alternatives since then, and as detailed in the unpublished notes for a related article I began crafting back in 2005: I. The Eight-Pointed Star [10m words]; which derives from over 25 listings of proposed articles and adventures seeded with GH lore I was combining in my Red Book file. Others in this vein I paste hereafter. Whether all of these can be done in context with all the name changes needed is a matter for future thought.
-- VI. Greyhawk's Spell Archetypes Based on the Suloise Ancient Texts [10m words]; XVI. The Suel Magi, Including the Ritual for the Invoked Devastation [12m words]; XII. The Yeomanry's Expeditions into the Sea of Dust [10m words]; XVII. Baklunish Ancient Magic, Formulas and the Colorless Fire [12m words]; XXI. The Lost Passage (adventure) [20m words]. ... --RJK
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In addition to WG5 and the 3 Maure Castle issues of Dungeon, the Octychs are also hinted at in Erik Mona's "Absolute Power" RPGA Living Greyhawk adventures "River of Blood" and "As He Lay Dying."
Two octychs have been accounted for: the one in EttRoG and the in Dragotha's Lair in the Age of Worms adventure "Into the Wormcrawl Fissure" (in Dungeon Magazine 134,May 2006).
Rob Kuntz has also commented on the octychs to a limited degree in threads here at Paizo as well as on the Pied Piper boards but he hasn't revealed further mysteries that I recall.
Happy to help, baron! :D Unfortunately, I haven't had any time to update my other Wyre-related bookmarks for non-Rogues Gallery rules discussions that Sep started, and I don't think they work after EnW changed their URLs schema.
Has anyone attempted to create a Maure family tree, by chance? I haven't yet, but was toying with the idea earlier today, and figured if someone else had already done so, it would save me a little research effort :D
Jason Zavoda's last index update predates the Maure Castle issue of Dungeon, so there's not a lot out there on the Maures otherwise:
Just a quick question, but does everybody remember the 8 pointed star at the Unopenable Doors? I was reading through my collection of Dungeon magazines recently and I remember reading about some treasure that included a triangular metal plate that was keyed to a plane. These two seem to be connected and I was wondering whether anybody had any hard facts on these mysterious plates?
There's not a lot of info on them, Valmoth Galvador. Your best sources for lore are:
WG5's 'Entering the Level' on pages 4-5 wrote:
Characters who examine the floor here will note that there is an eight-pointed star chiseled into the stone. The points of the star are entirely cleaned out, as if something is supposed to be set into them. The “something” which is meant to be inset is a set of eight metal triangles, each about the size of a halfling’s hand and each of a Merent hue. In the Greyhawk Campaign, each plate was enchanted to a different plane typically a special demi-plane or similar place. Thus, a double adventure was set up for each of the eight triangles. First came the search for the metal plaque, and then came the adventure of traveling to the destination encoded on the plaque, exploring, and finding a way back. When the whole WORLD OF GREYHAWK Campaign series is eventually completed, the eight triangles will be placed therein, as will the destinations encoded upon them. Until such time, you may either leave the eight-pointed star as an enigma, or else decide for yourself the locations of the plates and their mysterious destinations. Then, either in this dungeon complete (or in another), your adventurers may find a special treasure--an explanation of the power of the eight-pointed start and its metal pieces, and a clue as to where one of them might be found. Thereafter, you have a whole new set of adventures for your campaign!--EGG
In addition to what is revealed in Dungeons 112, 124, and 139, you'll find a few other tidbits out there:
The Age of Worms AP includes one of the pieces of the eight-pointed star as part of Dragotha's treasure hoard in Dungeon 134's "Into the Wormcrawl Fissure"
Erik Mona wrote two RPGA adventures for Living Greyhawk back in Year 1. They were part of an intended series of seven modules titled "Absolute Power" that has not yet been completed (I'm eternally hopeful); the two adventures are entitled "River of Blood" (an allusion to S2 White Plume Mountain), and "As I Lay Dying" and contain some clues and hints about the eight-pointed stars.
The Living Greyhawk logo itself features the eight stars in it; you can see it in the LGJ #4 issue on Paizo.com @ http://paizo.com/image/product/magazine_issue/Other/LivingGreyhawkJournal/4 /cover_500.jpg
I can't think of any other sources about the eight-pointed star, offhand.
I'm not a huge fan of ToEE myself (or RttToEE either): the dungeons just aren't all that interesting. (T1 Village of Hommlet rocks, btw, I'm just not keen on its sequels).
If you're that worried about too much dungeon crawling in T1-4, shorten it: chop out some of the levels completely, or collapse some; ignore the elemental nodes; simplify the competing factions (perhaps only the Fire Temple still remains, or somesuch).
Another way to broaden the T1-4 adventure is to follow-up on some of the hints and leads mentioned in T1 that are ignored in T1-4: trace the cult back to Dyvers (or the Wild Coast, or somewhere else you prefer); play with the undetailed geography (for example, what if the village of Ostverk was infiltrated by evil doers even moreso than Hommlet was/is?). Etc. Or, replace T2-4 entirely by making Maure Castle the forces behind the ToEE, or by making it the real movers and shakers behind the Temple (instead of Iuz, Tzuggtmoy, etc.).
If you want to bridge into Maure Castle more clearly, then make some connections between the PCs and the Maures: hints about the Suel migrations, maps to lost Suel lore (perhaps tied to the migrations, perhaps to the lost city in the Suss forest [also expanded upon by Gygax in his Artifact of Evil novel]), links to the Lost City of the Elders (or the various cults detailed in Dungeon 112 [these didn't appear in the original WG5]), references to Kerzit or the Purple [Stone] Oracle, etc., etc. Tomorast found the Tome of the Black Heart in a curio shop in Greyhawk City: how did it get there, and do other copies of this fell tome exist (or, what about other, similar tomes: Tome of the Red Heart, or Tome of the Black Hand, or whatever)?
This is just stuff off the top of my head, but my point is that there's plenty of material in both T1 and MC that you can shape into whatever your needs are for your game.
