fallen-angle's page

I have played an Enlightened Fist in 3.5 and had fun, despite it being such a weak class.

Requiring 3rd level spells for the entry requirement instead of 2nd is a mistake. This is a class designed to allow two classes with no real synergy to work together (wizard/monk or sorcerer/monk). As such the entry point needs to be at the minimum for prestige classes. It should also be the same for wizards and sorcerers.

Moving Arcane Fist to first level does not help much. It seems like the signature ability of the class and as such should not be obtainable by dipping one level. It is also near useless at 1st level (and not much better at third. The EF will have a poor BAB, lowish hit pointe and lower AC than equivalent level monk. Trying to do full attacks is not a great idea (speaking from experience). A monk 1/sorcerer 6/EF 1 would have a BAB of +4 at 8th level - the same as a single classes wizard. In 3.5 mine had the same as a monk 1/sorcerer 4/EF 3, so this isn't any worse. Arcane Fist really needs to be a standard action, single attack.

Fist of Energy was obsoleted for most purposes by Arcane Fist with Shocking Grasp in 3.5. Here it is obsoleted before it starts, though it later becomes better than a first level spell, I doubt it would ever be particularly useful. Making Fist of Power the full attack option and Arcane Fist the standard action one might work. The birst ability is just flavour given that unarmed attacks only crity on 20 (as a base).

Diamond Soul is a moderate ability for a single classed monk, when you have had to take at least 5 levels it won't count it becomes weak.

These problems are not the fault of the conversion - mostly they exist in the 3.5 version.

In order of Points Made:

-Arcane Fist is fine at first level. The loss of a caster level utterly deters any caster from dipping, and the loss of a point of base attack deters warriors. I do however agree that the full attack hurts, but standard action is no better. Given that the class is a caster one assume that they will use other spells (like True Strike) to make the Arcane Fist land.

-Assuming you play a Sorcerer or Wizard then yes, your base attack will probably be poor. But this conversion assumes some access to other 3.5 classes. Hexblade, Duskblade, and Warmage are all reasonable for entry and have a more respectable combat prowess. As are some other PrCs with more limited spell lists.

-Fists of Energy, and its subsequent burst enhancement are more for flavor. However that isn't to say that they are too weak. For one they are untyped and stack with other bonuses. Also, they apply to the full action. A Hasted Flurrying Enlightened Fist will get up to 5 attacks (assuming no polymorph cheese). Adding 3d6 to each is fairly threatening to an opponent caught off guard. Especially if you just spent the first action screwing their AC with Bestow Curse or Shivering Touch.

-Diamond Soul and Fists of Energy are designed to improve with the class. There needs to be some incentive to finish off that class otherwise you end up with things like the Malconvoker (who is really only worth taking to level 6) or even worse the eminently dippable Mind Bender. Someone who leaves the class early will not be as good at the classes abilities as someone who sticks through to level 10.

All that said, I agree that Arcane Fist might need to be reconsidered as either as an enhancement to any attack, not just one made as part of a full attack.

I'll finish with an example:
A 10th level Enlightened Fist (Monk 2, Warmage 3, EF 10) with the multiattack feat can jump into battle by polymorphing themselves into an octopus, with true strike. The proceed to deliver 10 attacks (8 arms, Flurry and Haste) each dealing 3d6 extra damage.
The first two also contain two blasts of attribute damage (lets say 3d6 Dex from Shivering Touch) which should cripple most enemies. His caster level is 16 for those spells, up to 20 or so with feats. So SR isn't a problem. If the target is immune to ability damage it could just be two castings of disintegrate, or anything else you like. They do not get attacks of opportunity for this.
The following 30d6 or so damage is really just for kicks. I suppose they could also use a stunning fist attempt in there as well. But what is the point.
(The above example assumes an unusually optimized character)

As one of the authors of this conversion allow me to explain the choices and clarify:

Clarifications:
Arcane Fist does not allow a touch attack, they must actually hit with a normal attack to deliver the spell.

Flurry of Spells allows two Arcane Fist attempts. It does not say that it allows arcane fist to strike with two spells. Thus it requires two stunning fist charges.

It says it stacks with feats for determining how the monk calculates their pools refers to ki and stunning fist type feats. Ones that expand the ability of the original class. It is somewhat redundant in this sense. It does NOT refer to class powers.

This class does not stack with flurry of blows. There is no PrC of which I am aware that does.

Explanations:
Ki Power exists purely to remove the need for the Practiced Spell-caster feat. An enlightened fist will sacrifice 5 levels of casting in its build (if not more) 3 from monk and another two from the class itself. As it is a casting based class spell power and penetration are absolutely necessary for remaining effective. Therefore certain players will see it as necessary to hike their caster level to balance this out, essentially adding another required feat. Along with the chance that an Arcane Fist attack will miss, thus wasting the spell, the Enlightened Fist's player needs to be sure that those attacks that do hit count.

Arcane Chakra is in my opinion, rather underpowered. To maintain combat effectively it will probably eat up a solid 5 - 10 levels of spell. Not something most casters want to lose. It should however also read-

"These extra points last a number of rounds equal to the Enlightened Fist class level. After which time unspent points are lost completely."

This stops a caster from unloading their low level spells before (or after) battle to recharge their pool.

That all said, this class was made with the intent to make it content with other casting classes. The loss of caster levels and melee focus left it slightly behind a straight wizard in terms of power. However, if you are playing in a lower power game, or simply with less experienced players it is entirely reasonable to weaken a few of its abilities.

Hopefully this helps clear up some questions.