dndculix's page

Hey,

Great ideas everyone! :) Thanks for the feedback.

EWHM - good call on wizards talking with powerful outer-planar beings. *Hopefully* my tiny activity isn't enough to warrant that kind of attention, but I guess we'll see :P I (and the party) have started working on alliances with other powerful groups in the city, so we'll see where that goes.

'Nondetection' says "If cast on a creature, nondetection wards the creature's gear as well as the creature itself", so hopefully that means one casting will do it?

Nebulous_Mistress - Thanks for the feedback on the fake book contents. I was thinking that might be overdoing it with "Dwarfa Sutra" and that I should pick a more generic book, but this might work out well for hiding things. I guess we'll see ;)

I should have mentioned - the inn we are staying at is a large building made entirely of stone. The walls are a least a foot thick, and the doors are made of solid iron. Plus I am on the 3rd floor. So hopefully that covers me from most detection spells such as 'detect magic'. As for 'locate object' - does that spell work across planes? The description doesn't say. If it doesn't work across planes then hopefully hiding this book in a 'handy haversack' will prevent that spell. If it does work I may be in trouble if they discover the book exists.

Good call on 'enter image'. We are playing only with core Pathfinder spells/SRD, so hopefully I won't have to worry about the DM sneaking this on me. But I might start filing down my coins just in case ;) That might make a good roleplaying hook too. Or it might make people more suspicious. hm. And I will start picking up 2 of each of my equipment ;)

ZomB - good call on the fake 'embarassing secret'. I will give this some thought.

Ravingdork - thanks, I had never thought of the abjuration fields! :P Hopefully my DM won't either ;) But I think since the only abjurations I have to worry about are 'nondetection' and 'alarm', hopefully it will be fine. 1) They're inside the rope dimension, disappearing after each time. 2) I'm not keeping these up for 24 hours, so hopefully the fields won't interfere.

>>Spell Mastery

Right! I will consider this for my next feat level, as I get further into the Lodge :P

Thanks everyone!

The campaign I'm playing in right now is city-based (Riddleport + home brew) and heavy on intrigue. The mage's guild is trying to control all magic and access to magic, and has a ton of spies, secret agents, public enforcers, and so forth. My character wants to hide a few of his spells from the guild, so that they don't know exactly how powerful he is.

The plan is to use secret page to hide some spells in a book no one would ever look at ("The Dwarfa Sutra"?). But I don't want the guild to know I'm scribing them. These are the steps I've come up with to try and hide my activities. I'm only level 5, so I don't have access to all magic.

So:

1. Can you think of other things I could do to try and hide my scribing? Things you could do as a normal character and/or level 5 wizard.
2. Can you think of higher-level things I could do when I have more money or levels?

For the purposes of this post, assume the mage's guild is an evil, conniving entity with an unlimited budget and many wizards on their side :P

Feel free to be as devious as possible ;) Feedback is welcome.

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1. Call the monk and the paladin up to my room at the inn where we stay. Get the paladin to cast detect evil and I cast detect magic. We look at the room. The paladin can then leave.
2. Cast see invisibility. Look at the room.
3. Along with the monk (who has the highest Perception score), Take 20 on Perception checks to search the room. The room is 16 squares so at 2 min each it should take 32 minutes to search the whole room. See invisibility will still be on. The DC to notice hidden divination sensors: 20 + spell level, so 29 max.
4. Thank the monk, and he leaves. My character closes and locks the door.
5. I stuff a bunch of blankets and sheets around the bottom of the door to stop physical things from walking in.
6. Cast nondetection on myself.
7. Cast alarm on the room with an audible warning, so people can hear it outside.
8. Take 5ft of chopped rope and cast rope trick. Take all my supplies and climb inside the rope dimension. As it is an extradimensional space, this should give me a bonus against any scry or hopefully other divination spells they might use.
9. Once inside the rope trick, cast detect magic and check for auras. Hopefully none other than my own spell.
10. Using a pearl of power, cast a second alarm spell inside the rope dimension. This time it is a mental alarm. That should cover intruders to the internal pocket space.
11. Cast fog cloud to hide what's going on inside the space anyway. This blocks all forms of vision (including darkvision, and should foil 'true seeing') beyond 5 ft. Should still be enough to let me use my lights/candles and do my scribing :)
12. Use my hat of disguise to make myself look different. Who knows, may help against spells that go by description or are foiled by illusion.
13. Cast detect magic again and search for auras. Should only take 6 rounds to check every direction. Check to make sure they're the same as when I came in + my own spells. If not investigate/abort.
14. S.O.P. is then to pause briefly every 2d6 minutes of game time and cast detect magic again. Check the auras. This only takes 30 seconds every time.
15. Begin writing my spells! :D

* I write secret page into a book and then cast secret page on the spell itself to hide it.
* Repeat with other spells I want to put hide
* I'm going to try to use Linguistics to make the spell writing different than my other spellbook (not sure if this is possible; still working out details with the DM)
* Also use Linguistics to make the cover/fake/visible handwriting of the book look different than my own.
* I then have S.O.P. to cast 'magic aura' on this book every morning so it detects as non-magical. Stuff it in a handy haversack with a bunch of other books and hope nobody notices.

Spells needed:
alarm
alarm
see invisibility
rope trick
fog cloud
nondetection

Can you think of any other precautions?

So intelligent magic items in Pathfinder can be given ranks in skills. This may be a silly question, but do you think any skills possessed by intelligent magic items could be considered class skills? e.g. Say a king owns an intelligent sagely staff that gives advice. The staff has ranks in Diplomacy and Sense Motive. Does the staff gain the +3 bonus for a class skill on those skills?

The PFSRD says class skills "represent part of [your] professional training and constant practice". One one hand, intelligent items aren't really trained, so you could say no. Also, they're just objects - why would they have any class skills? OTOH an intelligent item may very well be created with a specific purpose in mind - giving advice, destroying a certain enemy, etc. If the item is meant to do one thing and do it well, it may make sense for the skill to be a class skill. If the item has been around a long time and had practice using that skill, that might qualify too.

D&D 3.5 granted intelligent items 10 ranks in a skill, and the rules don't mention anything about cross-class ranks. So perhaps the intent is for any skills known by an item to count as class skills?

What do you think?

Hey everyone,

Do you think it is possible for a character to Take 20 when performing a Sleight of Hand check to hide an object on their body? I am assuming they are in a safe place away from observers, and not, say, under the threat of combat. The SRD says "When you use this skill under close observation, your skill check is opposed by the observer's Perception check". But if you know someone is going to frisk you could you spend a long time (20 minutes) hiding something well?

A long time ago Sean K. Reynolds made this page, which says you can't Take 20 on Pick Pocket rolls in 3.0 because there's a penalty for failure (the +10 increase to the DC for successive attempts). But if you're hiding the object while in the safety of your own house and, say, the castle guard only gets once chance to frisk you it doesn't seem like you're giving him multiple chances, or failing any sort of check right in front of him. Does it seems reasonable to allow Taking 20 on checks to hide objects if you have a safe place to do so?

Thanks,
culix

Ah. Though in this other thread James Jacobs says

"We generally take pains NOT to officially date our Adventure Paths. It's a strength that you can play them in any order, and one thing we ABSOLUTELY don't want to do is foster the idea that you have to buy them in order."

I don't have the campaign setting, so take that info over this, but "Cheliax - Empire of Devils" helps with some dates.

• Page 17 mentions the shadow beasts appearing in 4676AR and that a curfew was declared which "remains in place over 30 years later". That gives a minimum current date of 4706 AR.
  
• The official Chelish (Chelaxian?) calendar says that House Thrune came to power in 4640AR
  
• The section on Westcrown's history states that Westcrown has been struggling "for nearly 70 years" since Queen Abrogail I came to power. 70 years gives a maximum current date of 4710AR, so "nearly 70 years" being just before that to 4709 makes sense.
  

I found another typo. On p. 9 the Shadow Child trait says "You're goal is to reclaim the darkness from the beasts that hide within". This should read "your goal".

I think the "not moving" part is a little bit hard, isn't it? ... It should be really hard, but 60 is impossible. I would have suggested something around 40.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe the entry in the table should read +20 instead of +40? But then again, if you go by the invisibility spell, sensing an invisible creature could be a DC of their Stealth check + 40, and it's not unreasonable for some creatures to be able to get a total of 20 or more on their Stealth checks.

Okay, the incorrect table entry has already been noted in the errata thread, so hopefully it will be incorporated into the errata soon.

Well Zerberus beat me to the punch with a shorter post, but I'll paste this in anyway.

I believe the numbers in the chart are modifiers to the Perception DC; they make it easier or harder to notice or pinpoint invisible characters. So for example normally you can "notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet" with a DC 20 Perception check. Looking at the table, if the invisible creature is yelling or speaking at you the DC is 20 - 20, or 0, so you would almost automatically realize that an invisible creature was present. Realizing they're present doesn't help you pinpoint their location though; for that you normally need to beat a DC 20 + 20 = 40 Perception check. If the invisible creature is speaking that makes it easier to pinpoint their location: the DC for your Perception check is 40-20 = 20.

For matching things up with the Perception skill you may want to look at the spell invisibility, which says invisible creatures get a +40 bonus to their Stealth checks, or +20 if they're moving. So it could be that the base DC 20 Perception check to "notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet" is based on this; you assume the creature has a 0 check result and a +20 bonus? Or a +40 bonus if they're not moving, explaining that DC.

I think you found an important typo here: the line for "Not moving" should say +40 rather than -40. It could be someone was looking at the +40 for not moving in the invisibility spell and made a mistake when transcribing the table. But yes, I believe that if an invisible creature is not moving they should be very hard to notice or pinpoint: +40 to the DC to notice them (bringing it to DC 60) or DC 80 to pinpoint their square :P At that point you probably want to break out the glitterdust, a see invisibility spell, a dog with scent, or some other means of assistance.

Fixing the "not moving" table entry also makes things jive with the entry for "Using Stealth": if the invisible creature is moving the Perception DC is equal to their Stealth check +20, or Stealth check +40 if they're not moving.

This is a good catch; if it hasn't already been mentioned I will make a post in the errata thread.

The text also states that the DC is at +20 to pinpoint an invisible creature; is this referring to any of the normal DCs listed under the Perception skill or the DC 20 to know an invisible creature is present, or both?

I believe the act of pinpointing an invisible creature is a special action - you're trying to figure out exactly where they are (within a 5 ft space), usually so you can attack them, use spells, or do things of that nature. Thus, yes, if it's normally a DC 20 to notice an invisible creature it would be DC 20 + 20 = 40 to pinpoint their location.

the chart appears to list modifiers to the Perception DC. Is this referring to the DC 20 to know when an invisible creature is within 30 ft., or the check to pinpoint the creature?

I believe it applies to both, and to any relevant situations where you look at the Perception chart.

Does that make more sense?

As others mentioned I noticed some possible typos in the Player's Guide. Is there a good place to give Paizo feedback on things like this? Do you prefer email? I hope you don't mind, but since Astralplaydoh already noted one of the issues above I will post the ones I found below. Please let me know if this is bad form; I'm happy to send feedback elsewhere if it's desired.

• p. 9, The Pathfinder's Exile: The third sentence says "Delvehaven lies under the pale of fearful rumors and dark magic". Is there a missing word here? e.g. "The pale [noun] of fearful rumors"?

• p. 10, Westcrown Environs: The last sentence of the first paragraph reads "... its ancient and eclectic architecture dominated by a crumbling northern quarter filled with an unseen menaces ...". Should this be "an unseen menace" or "unseen menaces"?

• p. 10, Westcrown Environs, second paragraph: "the following information is designed as an overview of region around that shining metropolis". Should this say "an overview of *the* region"? Or "of regions"?

• p. 10, The Westcrown Region: The first paragraph begins with "Many sites important to the daily life of Westcrown that are not situated within the city walls or directly on its waters". This sentence feels awkward. Could it perhaps be changed to "Many sites important to the daily life of Westcrown are not situated ..." (i.e. remove the word 'that') or "There are many sites ..."?

• p. 10, The Dhaenfens: The first sentence here refers to Westcrown as "the City of Twilights". Is that intentional and another accepted name for the city, or should the word "Twilights" be singular?

• p. 11, The Rikkan Ports: not so much a copyedit as a question for clarification. The first sentence says "two small port towns have grown up on the shores of the lake - Westpool and East Rikkan". Looking at the map, Westpool and East Rikkan appear to be on either side of the River Adivian. Should this sentence state that the towns are on the shores of the river instead, or are there actually lakes there that collect as water from the falls?

• p. 12, Westcrown's Foundations sidebar: The second paragraph, second sentence reads "The sewers developed over time, having once been natural the flood channels or canals...". Should the word 'the' be removed here so the sentence reads "The sewers developed over time, having once been natural flood channels..."?
  

--culix

I think this Player's Guide is really awesome and quite useful for a player about to play the Adventure Path. It was great to get details about the city and surroundings, and I like the traits. They gave me some good ideas for character backstory and helped me integrate my character into Westcrown. So thanks for the great work! Please keep it up.

I also love the PDF format. Thanks for giving this book away for free :)

Okay, after some searching here is the data I found on caster level being (or not being) a requirement.

The Monte Cook boards have a thread here discussing this very topic. In particular see this post by Carthain, a very knowledgeable and rules-aware fellow. Cartain argues that caster level is not a requirement.

1. The 'Requirements' section for magic items comes *after* the Caster Level section; it does not include the Caster Level section. (the Pathfinder SRD says "The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item's caster level". They're not, really; they're given at the end of the description, but maybe that was something the designers forgot to update?)

2. The thread also mentions WotC's D&D 3.5 FAQ, which says

"Unless stated specifically, items never have a minimum caster level as a prerequisite. (The "CL" entry is the default caster level of the item, not a requirement for creation.) A 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item could create a harp of charming (even though he's not high-enough level to cast suggestion, a prerequisite for creation), as long he had access to the suggestion spell during creation (such as from an item or another character)."

This seems pretty explicit. You unfortunately have to download the FAQ as a PDF file, but you can find it here, in the 'v.3.5 Main D&D FAQ' on p. 63.

3. Finally, the thread mentions Monte Cook's "Making Magic Items FAQ", which you can find here. Monte was one of the designers of the 3e system and posted the FAQ to help people understand some of the design intentions. The FAQ says:

"Note what it doesn't say. It doesn't say that you have to be the listed level to make a given item. It's not a prerequisite. You don't have to be 17th level to create a 1st-level pearl of power -- you just have to meet the prerequisites. Prerequisites, you'll notice, get their own section. It comes next. All you do with caster levels is determine the level-dependent effects of an item. Those listed in the DMG are just averages. When you determine an item randomly, or pick one out of the book for your player characters to find or to equip an NPC, that's the caster level of the item. That's all it is."

I agree wholeheartedly that these sentences are confusing: "For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level". It would be nice if the SRD specifically mentioned that caster level was *not* a requirement (or specifically mentioned that it was, if that's what the designers intended). But it sounds like what these sentences were originally intended to mean was "since these other types of items don't directly mimic spells look at the other requirements for the item to determine the minimum caster level".

Thus I believe that caster level is *not* a requirement for making magic items, except in cases where level is specifically mentioned in the 'Requirements' section, such as with Cloaks of Resistance. The Pathfinder team, of course, is free to overrule this for the Pathfinder system (and please correct me if I'm wrong), but that's my best guess at a correct interpretation based on the history of the 3e ruleset.

...

So Seraphimpunk for the case of your player's Cleric, since caster level is specifically mentioned in the Requirements section it sounds like they can either wait until they're high enough level to craft the Cloak they want, or they can raise the DC by 5 and make as powerful a Cloak as they're capable of rolling. In the second case, since magic item DCs are "5 + the caster level for the item" I believe you would calculate the normal DC of the item you want to create and then add 5. So if your 5th level cleric wants to make a Cloak of Resistance +5, the DC (if they were level 15) would normally be 5 + 15 = 20. Your player's cleric would add 5 to get a DC of 25. Make sense?

Hey Paizo fans,

I have a question about the DCs and time requirements for crafting magic items. The SRD says:

* "The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item."
* "Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof)"
* "This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by +5."

If you put the maximum number of ranks into the relevant skill at every level your modifier will be your level + ability mod (+3 if the skill is a class skill). Thus if you take 10 on the crafting check your check will be at least 10 + your level. If you do accelerated crafting, this check is against a DC of 10 + your level. Am I misunderstanding something or is it a good idea for crafters to *always* choose accelerated casting, since they essentially cut the time in half with no cost or risk?

I can think of a few exceptions where you would not want to accelerate, such as if you're raising the DC in order to skip one of the item requirements - say, if you're a half-orc crafting Boots of Elvenkind. But these situations seem rare.

Don't get me wrong - I think the possibility of accelerating your crafting is an *excellent* idea. I've both played crafting characters and had players who were crafters, and accelerated crafting would have been a boon in both situations. I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting the rules.

To continue the thought of faster crafting, what do you think about increasing the DC even further? Do you think it would be unbalanced to raise the DC by 10 for 3x faster crafting or by 15 for 4x faster? If you have a crafter with an ability score of at least 14 (+2) and the skill was a class skill (+3) they would be able to make a DC 15 + caster level check by taking 10. If you have a really excellent crafter (say, a higher ability score plus Skill Focus) they may be able to make a DC 20 + caster level check by taking 10. This could really allow dedicated crafters to excel.

Searching through the archives I found this post, which says the opposite: for anything besides potions, scrolls, and wands "the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level". hm.

I believe caster level is not a requirement, as it is not mentioned in the Requirements section. Caster Level is supplied to give you a general idea of how powerful items are, and so you can adjudicate spells like 'detect magic' or item saving throws.

In fact the SRD says: "The caster level determines the item's saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation."

See here - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/magic-items---final - under "Magic Item Descriptions"

For a Cloak of Resistance, I believe this puts the DC at 5 + (3 * bonus), as you mentioned. So DC 8 for a +1 Cloak, 11 for a +2, 14 for a +3, 17 for a +4, and 20 for a +5. So yes, this would mean at least caster level 3 for a +1 cloak, caster level 6 for a +2, and so on.

For caster level of items you create the crafter can decide what level to set, so long as it's as least as high as the minimum and no higher than their own level. If your player has a 5th level cleric they could craft a +1 Cloak of Resistance and decide to set the caster level for the item at 3rd, 4th, or 5th (their max level). I believe the cloak would cost the same amount in all three cases but the higher caster level means a higher DC in exchange for higher item saving throws if they succeed.

Your point about ignoring the caster level in exchange for increasing the DC by 5 is interesting. It seems like this opens up a lot of new doors for crafters. So could a level 5 character create a +5 Cloak of Resistance with a DC 25 check? Or do you raise the DC by 5 for each three levels you are missing?

Very cool. Thanks sir!

Hello,

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this. I am wondering if an entry could be added to the Messageboard FAQ ( http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/faq ) that talks about editing your own posts. It looks as though you have a limited time to edit your own posts, and the reasons for this have been mentioned in several threads:

* http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizo/websiteFeedback/archives/unableT oEdit
* http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizo/websiteFeedback/archives/editing Posts
* http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizo/websiteFeedback/archives/editabl ePostsPlease

Do you think an entry could be added to the FAQ that mentions these policies? In case it saves Paizo employees any time or effort I have created a draft FAQ entry below.

Thanks! :)
culix

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draft entry:

"Can I edit my own posts?" -OR- "Help! I can no longer edit my message!"

Messages you post to the Paizo messageboards can be edited for up to one hour after submission. After this time messages cannot be edited. There are several reasons for this policy: firstly it prevents people from "rewriting history" by changing a controversial post; it also helps conversations flow the way most people expect, with newer information being added at the bottom; finally we hope this policy encouraces people to think carefully before they post.

Hey everyone,

Wow, thanks for the awesome replies! These are good ideas, and yeah thanks for pointing out the stuff I missed like Small races and size bonuses to Stealth :P

Reduce person and small race sounds like a winner, you'd be relying on sneak attack dice in a bad way at that point though, especially if you went Tiny.

Good point. If the Small character was a spellcaster they would have a leg up here. But I don't necessarily need the character to *stay* small - temporarily reducing them so they can sneak past a foe or set up an ambush and then returning them to normal size would work for me :)

Iron Silence - This is a second level bard spell ... armor no longer gives a check penalty to stealth checks

This sounds like a very useful spell. I don't see it in the Pathfinder SRD (I don't have my hardcopy with me atm). If it's not from the main Pathfinder book can you tell me the source? As we're doing our first playtest I'm not sure if the DM will allow material from outside the core Pathfinder book, but if I can find the spell it can't hurt to ask :)

I'm guessing the Subsonics ability is from the same source?

Thanks everyone. Since I am unable to edit my original post I am putting the updated list below, with credits for your ideas and some other things I have discovered in the meantime.

culix/dndculix

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How to be stealthy in Pathfinder:

1. Buy ranks in Stealth. Every class in Pathfinder can purchase ranks in this skill on a 1-1 cost; it's a great way to ensure you have a basic level of sneakiness.
2. Take a level of Bard, Monk, Ranger, or Rogue. These classes have Stealth as a class skill, so if you buy one rank you get a +3 bonus on Stealth checks. You can also take a level of Cleric and select the Trickery domain.
3. Play a human or half-elf. Humans get bonus skill points at every level while Half-elves get a free Skill Focus feat - use these to increase your Stealth check.
4. Play a Gnome or Halfling. These races are Small and gain a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks. (Thanks Zurai)
5. Play a Fighter. Fighters learn armor training at level 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19; this allows them to reduce the armor check penalty, increase the max Dex bonus, and move more quickly.
6. Play a Rogue. The Rogue Talent 'Fast Stealth' lets the rogue move at full speed while being stealthy, while the Advanced Rogue Talent 'Skill Mastery' can let her take 10 on Stealth checks even when stressed or distracted.
7. Pick a cat familiar. If you're a wizard this nets you a +3 on Stealth checks.
8. Wear masterwork armor. Sure it "only" reduces your armor check penalty by one point, but every little bit helps. Masterwork armor is a cheap way to improve your Stealth skill that doesn't cost skill points or feats.
9. Get Shadow armor. For 4900gp (150 masterwork, 1,000 +1 enhancement, 3,750 Shadow) you can buy +1 Shadow armor and get a +5 competence bonus on Stealth checks.
10. Get Mithral armor. Mithral armor and shields are one category lighter for the purposes of movement and encumbrance, weigh half as much, increase the max Dex bonus by 2, and decrease the armor check penalty by 3. Darkwood shields also lower the armor check penalty by 2. (Thanks Dissinger)
11. Use feats. Skill Focus (Stealth) and Stealthy, while perhaps not optimal, both add to your Stealth skill check.
12. Buy a wand of invisibility. At 4500gp these are not cheap, but they can help hide your less stealthy party members at key times. Other spells in wands may work well too.
13. Use consumables.
* Dust of Disappearance grants you 'greater invisibility' for 2d6 rounds (3,500gp)
* Dust of Tracelessness can be used to hide your tracks (250gp). (Thanks Daniel Moyer)
* Elixir of Hiding: +10 Stealth for 1 hour (250gp)
14. Use other magic items
* Cloak of the Bat (+5 Stealth, 26,000gp)
* Cloak of Elvenkind (+5 Stealth, 2,500gp)
* Cloak of Etherealness (55,000gp)

15. Use spells! Many spells can help individuals or a group be sneakier, including:

alter self; animal shapes; animal trance; beast shape i, ii, iii, and iv; cat's grace; cat's grace, mass; color spray; dancing lights; darkness; darkvision; deep slumber; deeper darkness; disguise self; elemental body i, ii, iii, and iv; ethereal jaunt; etherealness; fog cloud; gaseous form; ghost sound; glitterdust; guidance; hallucinatory terrain; heroism; heroism, greater; hide from animals; hide from undead; hypnotic pattern; hypnotism; illusory wall; invisibility; invisibility sphere; invisibility, greater; invisibility, mass; levitate; major image; meld into stone; message; minor image; mirage arcana; obscuring mist; open/close; pass without trace; persistent image; polymorph; project image; rainbow pattern; reduce person, mass; seeming; shapechange; silence; silent image; sleep; sleet storm; spider climb; suggestion; symbol of sleep; telepathic bond; transport via plants; tree shape; tree stride; ventriloquism

16. Use tactics! Some ideas:

- Use a scout or magic to recon the area ahead so you can approach at the right time or when danger has passed.
- Set ambushes. Let the noisier members of your group wait in hiding and have stealthier characters lead the enemy into your trap.
- Cast 'levitate' on noisy party members and have them hold on to a stealthy individual, or fly them on a rope like a kite. This allows heavily armored party members to be moved without doing a lot of clanking. (Thanks to Mistwalker for the idea)

--
updates: added Rogue talents, added gnome and halfling racial mods (thanks Zurai), added levitate idea (thanks Mistwalker), added 'darkvision', 'gaseous form' and 'levitate' to spell list (thanks Daniel Moyer and Mistwalker), added many consumable items (thanks to Daniel Moyer for making me go through the magic items chapter :)

Hey everyone,

In our next campaign we're going to playtest Pathfinder, and we also thought we'd mix things up a bit by straying from the standard fighter/cleric/rogue/wizard combination. We're going to try coordinating character design to make our party stealthy and fast, so we can set up ambushes and sneak around with ease. This probably means two stealthy meat shields (some combination of fighter/rogue), two arcane casters (most likely an evoker and either an illusionist or an abjurer), and possibly a paladin or monk.

At any rate, I am trying to figure out the best ways to be stealthy under the Pathfinder system. Below are ways I could think of to be good at stealth. Do you know of a cool way to make your character or the party stealthy and quiet? Please let me know!

culix

-------

How to be stealthy in Pathfinder:

1. Buy ranks in Stealth. Every class in Pathfinder can purchase ranks in this skill on a 1-1 cost; it's a great way to ensure you have a basic level of sneakiness.
2. Take a level of Bard, Monk, Ranger, or Rogue. These classes have Stealth as a class skill, so if you buy one rank you get a +3 bonus on Stealth checks. You can also take a level of Cleric and select the Trickery domain.
3. Play a human or half-elf. Humans get bonus skill points at every level while Half-elves get a free Skill Focus feat - use these to increase your Stealth check.
4. Play a fighter. Fighters learn armor training at level 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19; this allows them to reduce the armor check penalty, increase the max Dex bonus, and move more quickly.
5. Pick a cat familiar. If you're a wizard this nets you a +3 on Stealth checks.
6. Wear masterwork armor. Sure it "only" reduces your armor check penalty by one point, but every little bit helps. Masterwork armor is a cheap way to improve your Stealth skill that doesn't cost skill points or feats.
7. Get Shadow armor. For 4900gp (150 masterwork, 1,000 +1 enhancement, 3,750 Shadow) you can buy +1 Shadow armor and get a +5 competence bonus on Stealth checks.
8. Use feats. Skill Focus (Stealth) and Stealthy, while perhaps not optimal, both add to your Stealth skill check.
9. Buy a wand of invisibility. At 4500gp these are not cheap, but they can help hide your less stealthy party members at key times.
10. Use spells! Many spells can help individuals or a group be sneakier, including:

alter self; animal shapes; animal trance; beast shape i, ii, iii, and iv; cat's grace; cat's grace, mass; color spray; dancing lights; darkness; deep slumber; deeper darkness; disguise self; elemental body i, ii, iii, and iv; ethereal jaunt; etherealness; fog cloud; ghost sound; glitterdust; guidance; hallucinatory terrain; heroism; heroism, greater; hide from animals; hide from undead; hypnotic pattern; hypnotism; illusory wall; invisibility; invisibility sphere; invisibility, greater; invisibility, mass; major image; meld into stone; message; minor image; mirage arcana; obscuring mist; open/close; pass without trace; persistent image; polymorph; project image; rainbow pattern; reduce person; reduce person, mass; seeming; shapechange; silence; silent image; sleep; sleet storm; spider climb; suggestion; symbol of sleep; telepathic bond; transport via plants; tree shape; tree stride; ventriloquism

11. Use tactics! Some ideas:

- Use a scout or magic to recon the area ahead so you can approach at the right time or when danger has passed.
- Set ambushes. Let the noisier members of your group wait in hiding and have stealthier characters lead the enemy into your trap.

So, how else can you be stealthy in Pathfinder?