cesmus's page

Real Brain, I disagree with a lot of what you posted.

First, the assumption of 4E+DI as an attempt to convert MMO players to D&D isn't sound. Like you said yourself, they are very different gaming experiences. What besides "online" are there to suggest anything about converting MMO players? That's simply too shallow and forced. A lot of things have an online portion attached nowadays. The internet is just part of the modern lifestyle; WotC has a legitable motive to utilize it to make more money (and I guess to provide for their customers) with it.

Rather than MMO players, I think the whole DI thing looks more like a tool for people who are right now playing PbP and PbE or WebRPG style virutal tabletops, and those who cant find a group or too busy to head out to play. Seriously, it is hard to believe that the WotC staff are so insanely stupid as to think WoW and D&D are similar enough for conversion attempts. In fact, the very action of relating WoW with D&D on your part suggests below average insight into the gaming scene.

I am no fan of 4E due to the fact that 3.5E is so recent, and so are the Eberron products released based for 3.5E. Moving to 4E now feels premature. But then the 3.5E books can still be purchased and used. It isn't like I am required to keep current and play 4E if I dont want to. And since so little info is released for 4E, it is rather early to comment on "Why 4E will fail". But I am impressed with you ability to write so much with so little information; this prized skill called "BS", highly valued as a university student during times of essay writing.

What Lich-Loved said has compelled me to post. I agree almost completely with what you just said; it was a great analysis of the situation with this hobby.

I disagree though that this is the correct direction to go. They should not be trying to convert MMO players. Sure, both are "gamers" and traditionally, videogamers were usually geeks. The world changed. Nowadays, videogames and MMO are mainstream entertainment; a lot of people who play those games now aren't geeks. In other words, though they play MMO and videogames, they do not share the same affinity with table top games (the traditional geek stuff) as people did in the old days. We are essentially talking about very different groups of people here: the oldschool gamers and the modern gamers; the oldschool, people back in the old days, aka most of us here, were the "geeks". The modern gamers include geeks but not limited to geeks. The difference may be like radio and tv. They are just too different.

Not only is the target group entirely different. But DI is also not MMO. DI is at most a tool; MMO is a game. On top of that, a D&D experience is completly different from an MMO experience. Just because DI is online, does not mean it can attract MMO players. The "online" thing would essentially be the only thing in common between DI and MMO. That would be a very shallow common ground. If D&D didnt interest a kid, DI isn't going to change anything.

That's why I think the DI isn't made for MMO player conversion; it is simply too ineffective a plan if that be the case. But rather, as an official tool for D&D players to play online, targetted to those who are already playing D&D PbP or PbE or on WebRPG etc. It is a virtual tabletop. What use is a virtual tabletop for a MMO player? What they seek is a virtual world. The virtual tabletop is obviously for those who just cant find a group, and there are plenty of people like that.

NWN was a nice cross between modern gaming and tabletop gaming by allowing DMed sessions. NWN2 sucked, but if the younger generations are to be converted to oldschool style games, that would be the way to go. I'm talking about a more powerful, more versatile and more generic program in NWN-style that provides a virtual world that a DM can use, that allows for most of what you can do in a table top session.

I can see how the younger generation love their audiovisual aspects of their games, but I believe the high level of interactivity achiveable only through the existence of a human DM is something everyone would want. Kids nowadays just want more than their own mental images, but the basic concept of the hobby should still has its appeal.

Besides, the industry isn't really that hurt. May be WotC is, but WhiteWolf doesnt seem to be doing too badly. Looking further down to yet smaller companies, we see Green Ronin and the likes doing good with their stuff. Yet smaller are the indie games scene, which is still experiencing a boom and growing.

Also, I kind of the way they present DI and 4E together. They can make a DI while sticking with 3.5; so DI should not be presented as a 4E feature. I'm sick of getting stuff about DI when what I wish is to get info on 4E. I hope they'd stop pretending DI is part of 4E. It is just a freaking tool you can use with it.