caeserion's page

What other feat Mark was referring to was:

So you can deflect a kinetic blast but at a later level.
Even though it takes a second feat I'm glad fighters are even getting something like this at all.

I think auto succeeding would make it worse and cause more severe snap reactions to new players and people that haven't used 3PP before. "What you just automatically succeed at that? No roll?" It also sounds boring to me with it losing it fluff

Relying on a save would cause the disciplines to not be open to all the classes and could cause new players fall into a trap when picking a discipline base how cool it sounds.

Also asking DSP to change the skill check would require them to go back and do a large errata to the original Path of War having to rewrite the original book, which I think would be a major change that would require them reprint the the books again to people that owned them. The skill associated with a discipline wouldn't make any sense anymore and that would needed to be change also.

I don't think DSP is ignoring their player feedback but somethings can't be change because it would cause more issues than solve them.

Now tweeking some of the maneuvers to tone them down to the original Path of War is good but asking for something that would require an overhaul to the original book I don't think is going to happen.

Finally I wonder why would somebody by an item to boost something that already has a high chance of success already? My group frowns at that when somebody boost something already has a chance of succeeding. I don't see the point. It saves your money (whether it's a lot or a little saving is still saving) for other things that it could be used on. Like areas that you are weak in or have money on hand for emergencies.

@Felyndiira It's more than just damage it's the narrative power casters have also. I want the 9th lvl abilities to be something only few have obtain, something only a true master knows and more fluff like that.

I don't think the first POW was weak looking at lot of the other 9th lvl abilities like Broken Blade, Thrashing Dragon, Silver Crane, and Steel Serpent have save or die moves which in my opinion are great since Paizo has removed most of those. Solar Wind left me kind of wanting 20D6 to damage in a 20ft burst doesn't feel like the others (not saying that it has to be save or die just not the same wow factor)

But getting your initiation modifier as your number of attacks is a little too much I would say change it to a full round attack which makes if feel like you been training doing all those special single attack maneuvers and now you have finally succeeded in being able to unleash multiple combat maneuvers at once.

Oh my initial post about the complaints was when I played 3.5 at my comic shop we had a lot players there but you could pretty much tell who played the casters all the time (I mean 100% casters never would play a non caster) Those were the same people that complained whenever ToB was ask to be added (mainly by me) So pretty much had a knee jerk reaction with it feeling like was going the same way in the posts.

@Insain Dragoon removing the damage isn't bad but I think it needs to have an incentive bonus added for people that really want to do mounted combat and spend feats into it. So no extra damage but the saves DC get a bonus (The power of the mount combine with your technique makes it harder for your opponents to resit your attack. Some fluff like that) I don't know how much the bonus would be but it would allow mounted characters to want use the maneuvers and for some reason they're dismounted (Leaping Strike!) they can still use the maneuvers and still do fairly decent damage even though they are not mounted.

It gives the character more versatility and not having to worry about being dismounted and pretty much sucking.

@Insain Dragoon hmmm....you're right even after looking at the drop in base damage due to size, static and the other end of the damage amount I wouldn't see that much change in the overall amount.

How about adding that the damage from the maneuvers are not multiplied when charging, but to give people incentive to do mounted combat by adding bonus to DC (+2 or +4?) when triggering combat maneuvers and status effects if your mounted, and adding status effects to the ones that don't have it if your mounted?

The problem I'm seeing is moving to just a save instead of a skill check means that a discipline is only going to favor classes with high saves and stats just to use it. With having skill checks you can have a low DEX or a low Reflex save and still be able to do the counter because the skill check makes up for it. This leaves the discipline open to anybody and they can mix and match different disciplines with not having to be MAD in stats just use counters (and now combat maneuvers)

I would say if a change is needed than how about you add half your-insert skill here- to said check so you at least get a boost?

Doing away with the skill checks would make users of the Tempest Gale even more of a turret archer with people ignoring combat maneuver moves and just going for the stances and full attacking. I rarely see anyway playing the archer archetype because what you give up for the combat maneuvers are not worth it because they rarely succeed, you're better off just playing a plain fighter.

Killing almost anything with a 95-100% success rate with a caster that has 9th LVL spells is the norm right? Why can't it be for 9th lvl maneuver? Casters can cast theirs multiple times. Initiators at best can do it ever other round.

I don't mind the mounted charges stacking because it can't be used often especially when dungeon crawling. So when it gets a chance to shine it should really shine.

Once again I understand where everybody is coming from but removing the "skill checks in place of" would do more harm than good. Lowering I can see but removing I can't.

I'm really want to give up on this now the way I see it's going.

First people are complaining the skill checks in place of attacks a attack rolls are bad even though most of them are to defense and combat maneuvers the nobody really use in any game I played because even with heavy feat investment combat maneuvers had a hard time keeping up with CMD.

Next people think the single strike damage from piercing thunder is too high but the single strike damage from Tempest gale is too low. This makes it seem like everybody is going to run to Tempest gale and forget about Piercing thunder but will ignore any of the combat maneuver moves because of remove the skill checks movement going on.

The 9th level ability of Tempest gale is not going to do anything because somehow killing a enemy with a 9th level ability is OP even though casters can do it all the time and that's ok with everybody

I'm seeing the same complaints that happen in ToB with people saying that they are getting to close casters but as soon we take that away people are complaining the martials don't get anything.

Also because seeing a PC make a save with a skill and the villain that has knowledge martial can't make the check and go "oh so let me cast another spell like that" because of the check but somehow that's meta gaming?

Maybe it's me but I'm getting a feeling the path of war expanded is going to get some watered down some flashy moves that don't have a decent chance of success and low damage on disciplines that should have higher and higher damage on disciplines that will only have a couple of maneuvers pick from it.

Most of the feedback is generally good and had decent discussions but right burn skill replacement checks at the stacks movement is making me feel like it's about to go downhill.

But this is just my two cents

I still think somebody going to find something to say that it doesn't work that way. (Hopping that doesn't happen)

At Abraham I had a similar argument with my gaming group trying to convince them that charging a creature with reach provokes an AOO. Most of them still don't believe it. *shrugs*

@Guass no the FAQ is discussing what happens when you trade a scaling class feature and what happens if you get later. The examples are just examples it doesn't matter when you trade the part out.

I'm also seeing that a lot of people are forgetting the faster movement in medium and heavy armor happens as long as you get the base armor training. The scaling is the lowering the armor check penalty and adding maximum Dex to the armor.

Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.

In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.

It's no different then losing the first, second ,third, or whatever in any scaling class feature like sneak attack or channeling.

The Dragoon loses armor training 2-4 and so adding the war sash is not going to help because it doesn't get any more armor training. So yes you're right that they do get armor training and the sash would treat it as having 4 more levels in fighter for armor training but at the point when your are suppose get the ability it's traded out for something else meaning you wouldn't get it. So yes armor training 2-4 are not class abilities by themselves but part of an ability that scales which are often traded out.

No offense I often see arguments like this and it makes me feel like people are trying get one over the system in my opinion. Archetypes trade abilities for certain reason trying some way to get it back some different way of reading a rule is when get that feeling. Maybe seeing too much into it but like I said it just my opinion on it.

Ok Ssalarn here is one thing to clear up the Cavalier with needing a move action to use handle animal.

"A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and
trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions
as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as
his effective druid level."

Now the great thing about is that in the CRB a druid's animal companion has this.

"Special: This includes a number of abilities gained by
animal companions as they increase in power. Each of
these bonuses is described below.
Link (Ex):A druid can handle her animal companion
as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she
doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The
druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy
checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an
animal companion"

So yes a Cavalier can use a free action to make it mount attack (Provided that you have the proper tricks taught for the mount)

Unfortunately this doesn't help the other classes you mention and something still needs to be done about this. Not all is wrong in the world ;)