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Sczarni

This is part of a series of posts consolidating feedback from my players and myself on our playtest sessions.

The Skald is a class the defines role flexibility. It can be a frontline fighter, a spellcaster of the blaster or support variety, and it's clearly a support character with its raging song. Just like the bard it's a master of none of these roles, but the Skald proved (to me) a suprising asset in a number of situations. If only the other members of the party would realize it.

The early Skald is very simple. With extremely limited spells and rounds of rage, you find yourself hoarding what you have. The Skald worked closely with a Bloodrager, and that team was a very strong combo. We asked our DM for approval to consider raging song equivalent to the rage class feature for the purpose of feats, and when he approved it opened up a whole world of pain.

The early mechanic was Amplified Rage (+4 to rage modifiers while adjacent) along with moment of greatness (double your morale bonus for 1 roll) to do positively insane damage - having 30 strength while wielding a 2-hander is pretty strong.

Once the Skald gained access to Spell Kenning, I was very interested to see how his play would be affected. With its extreme limitation on usage / day, it didn't impact things much, but it was very cool to have the flexibility to cast just about any spell. While the wording is a bit ambiguous, it was clear that Skald's couldn't cast spells of a level higher than they could normally cast, and that's how we played it. This ensure that those reality-altering 7th-9th spells stayed safely out of reach.

At 15th level the Skald's raging song was providing a whole mess of rage powers, including extra attacks (claws, bite, gore) and pounce. This, combined with some coordinated charge teamwork feats, was quite strong - but not really much stronger than if some barbarians had been in the same party.

The big headache that we encountered is that while everyone is willing to accept inspire courage, not many people want to accept the rage. Be it concerns about AC, or the loss of the ability to cast spells, everyone has a reason why they don't want the bonus. Inevitably the conversation would go something like this:

Skald: Okay, I activate my song. who wants a whole bag of goodies? Strength, Con, Claws, all kinds of fun things.
Magus: I can't, I want to cast spells
Cleric: What if I have to heal somebody?
Monk/Rogue: I can't let my AC get any lower!
Wizard: Ha, no.

How the round of combat would go after this:
Skald Attacks, or casts spells as normal
Magus Attacks, chooses not to spellstrike
Cleric Attacks, doesn't cast any spells
Rogue Attacks, doesn't provke any AoO's or get attacked on his turn
Wizard gets hit and drops to -1 HP, falls unconscious

Now, I know why the Skald's raging song has the restrictions it does. But players aren't used to the feature, and while the removal of fatigue penalty provided a welcome relief, it's tedious to explain to every player the benefits they could enjoy if they were willing to plan their turn ahead. Granted, most of the playtesting occurred when the ability couldn't be turned off - my understanding now is you can choose to turn if off every round, which is very flexible and might encourage more players to accept it. With the new changes, I think these issues will be reduced, if not removed.

Likes
The class is so incredibly flexible. The only thing they don't do well is ranged combat.

Hitpoints, BAB, skills and saves are all appropriate.

Spell Kenning is super cool and fun, without being unbalanced. If only you could use it more often/longer, perhaps at a severe penalty...

Raging Song is fantastic and full of flavor, and provides great benefits to those who accept its benefits.

Dislikes
Raging Song is difficult to explain to allies, and many are wary of accepting it. It only gets worse as you start giving out rage powers. But that's why it's an Advanced class, right?

I wish Raging Song got 1 more extra round per level. 1 per level is too few when you realize that you get 3/4ths BAB and little else when the rage is down.

Overall Impressions
I love the Skald. I give this class a 10/10, because even with the faults, and the difficulty convincing people you're here to help, the class does work and provides concrete benefits, while still maintaining their own identity - with their weapon and armor proficiencies, they can go toe-to-toe in combat. Take some teamwork feats and some rage powers as feats and become the penultimate teammate.

Sczarni

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This is part of a series of posts derived from my continued experiences with a group of players. I'm consolidating their feedback into one post

The Shaman has undergone some pretty significant changes over the course of the playtest, and our Shaman has integrated those fairly effectively. With the transition to the druid spell list a the biggest (and most appropriate) change, the class has become more flavorful than it was before.

Our Shaman picked the Nature line, and as a result pumped his AC to quite formidable levels for his level 1. He took a reach weapon and was decent (not great) in melee combat, and mostly used his spells for support. At this point, and up to level 5, he had the cleric spell list, and he did use their incredible buff spells to great effect. By the time he reached level 15, however, he was using the druid spell list, and his output was reduced considerably.

He was 1 level from gaining his incredible animal companion, so we did some testing with that: having a shaman companion + druid companion made for a truly spectacular creature. At level 16 you expect some strength, but the pet was truly out of hand - 40 AC, 350 HP, share spells, huge and pounce on the charge. Combined with improved Grab, the pet was an incredible battlefield controller, and the Shaman was just along for the ride.

Likes
The shifting of spirits is flexible and powerful, but does have drawbacks (see below).

The class is an excellent blend of oracle and witch, but the druid spell list is appropriate from the flavor. Honestly, the druid spell list is just the right amount of toned-down that the class needs to not overshoot its derived classes.

Hitpoints, Saves and BAB are all appropriate. Skills is higher than what I'd expect, but with the druid spell list I think it's appropriate and I wouldn't change it.

Dislikes
With the huge array of features, it's very easy to get lost. This is in no way a class for beginners, unless you completely ignore the ability to switch spirits. Like the brawler, an encyclopedic knowledge of features is required to unlock the Shaman's full potential.

Some of the spirits are far more powerful than others. This is inevitable, but in my opinion battle, nature and life should be toned down. I hate saying things like this, but explain all the features in Shaman and why they might be too strong would require a post 3 times the size. I encourage people to read through the class and take note on what could grow out of hand given combination with existing feats and features (particularly when combined with cleric levels - thank goodness this class doesn't stack with oracle)

Overall Impressions
This is I think my least favorite class in the Advanced Class Guide, and I give it a 4/10. It's not because the class isn't balanced: I think that almost all flavors of this class are about as strong as an oracle or witch. It's because the huge bulk of features, and the ability to switch between them, rewards those who keep track of all the features. This kind of mechanic doesn't encourage use by casual players, and I think that's something to avoid.

In the hands of the right players, and with friendly and helpful DM's, this class can be quite flavorful, however.

Sczarni 1/5

So today is the last day of the playtest - what happens to our PFS characters built from the Advanced Class Guide? Are they shelved until the book comes out? Are they usable still, referencing version 2.0 of the playtest?

Thanks. I looked around but google + these boards don't seem to play nice. Sorry if this has already been answered.

Sczarni

I like the changes to studied combat and studied strike.

With it lasting up to your int mod it has a very decent duration.

I like that it takes a move / swift to activate.

I think the bonus to hit is a little strong (1/2 your investigator level, right?)
I think the bonus to damage is just right (1/2 your investigator level, right?)
I think the studied strike precision dice is just right at 9d6 progression.

I love the ability to punctuate your studied strike with a sneak attack, that is a very flavorful way of trying to gauge when you think a foe is going to drop. It rewards those who pay attention and encourages the DM to add flavor to the description of combat - a good DM always details what you're doing in combat, but a DM playing with an investigator should maybe be allowing heal checks and such to get a more precise reading on how wounded an opponent looks, so the investigator knows that his time to activate his finisher is nigh.

I think this is a great alternative to sneak attack that doesn't steal the rogue's thunder. A rogue can still do more damage than an investigator, if he positions carefully, and particularly in long fights. Fights that drag on (flying / invisible opponents, villians) present additional difficulty for the investigator, and I think that's appropriate. He still has extracts to keep himself busy, and in those long fights I think he would be better served buffing the party for the first few rounds anyways, and then wading in once the BBEG has been debuffed or bloodied.

Sczarni

This is part of a series of posts relating the experiences of my players in a special playtest session. In this post, the bloodrager has also played in pathfinder society, so I'm lumping those early experiences in here as well.

The bloodrager is a strange blend of combat & support. While 3/4ths of their spells at every level are blast spells, they also have the essential buffs: enlarge person, haste and mirror image. They also have some key debuffs: glitterdust, reduce person and slow. By the time they gain access to these spells, they aren't top-tier by any means: but they provide some crucial action economy options: Normally barbarians are crippled if the enemy isn't reachable in melee - the Bloodrager can resort to fireballs, slows, or other buff spells on allies that can contribute.

This mechanic is further modified by their bloodlines, which confer always-on spell like effects - this is a major feature, as Barbarians generally have to wait for a little help from their sorcerer friends before they wade off into battle: now they get a small (or not-so-small) buff for free when they rage. The bloodlines are varied, but like all classes with abilities like this, some end up standing out from the pack.

Our bloodrager went down the Abyssal line, so he began with claws and at 15th level he ended up with a positively massive 49-51 strength while raging (using some strength-pumping narcotics as well). Along the way, however, the role and abilities of the Bloodrager evolved considerably.

At first through third level the bloodrager operated in the same party as a Skald, and the two of them used teamwork feats to magnify and improve their rage. This allowed them to enjoy improved and longer rage that allowed them more freedom that either would normally enjoy. Bloodragers, Barbarians and Skalds all work together wonderfully and can be a very enjoyable set of classes to play together.

At 5th level, the bloodrager was enojying his enlarge person, and his first few early spells. However, these spells were mostly used immediately before combat - he could do far more damage smashing things with his claws than he could casting magic missile. Only spells like magic weapon or true strike interested him, and if the party was ambushed, he'd rather just charge in and start doing damage. I don't disagree with him there.

At 15th level, the bloodrager has truly come into his own. With his bloodline providing a host of bonuses and serious spellcasting power, the bloodrager was using monstrous physique to turn himself into all kinds of interesting things, most notably a gargoyle, to gain flight and extra arms. He could use these abilities to devastating effect, having taken some barbarian rage powers as feats (pounce totem, mostly). His damage per round was strong, but his AC was extremely low and (like many barbarian/bloodragers) he relied entirely on his hitpoints to carry him through fights.

Likes
The addition of free buffs when you rage is fantastic. Its a suitable and themed replacement for rage powers, without being 'better' than rage powers.

The spellcasting is good without being great, and it doesn't draw away from the melee focus of the class.

HP, Saves, Skills and BAB are all appropriate for their level. It seems odd to say, but this class has an appropriate level of MAD - Strength, Con, Cha, Dex, in that order, all make the class better. I think it's appropriate, considering the divide this class spans, and the benefits its reaping from both sides.

Some of the bloodlines are very well done, and the bloodlines all add something interesting. I can see Celestial being very strong in the current PFS season.

Dislikes
Some of the bloodlines (Abberant, Abyssal, Arcane) are perhaps too good, whereas others (Destined, Draconic, Fey) need some love. This is inevitable with this type of feature.

It would be cool if the spellcasting was less blasty. Not asking for pure utility spells, but more buffs (particularly group buffs) would be nice.

The spellcasting progression is appropriate, but this means that in the very early-game (1-4) the bloodrager is just a barbarian with a single trick. I'd like to see cantrips added to the class, so they have some spellcast-y feel all throughout their progression, and feel rewarding for putting points in Cha. As it is, a 14 Cha is all you need, and that's unfortunate from a balance perspective.

Overall Impressions
I like bloodrager a great deal. The only thing that gets odd is the way that spellcasting changes the class as it grows in levels. I can see some players underutilizing the class's features because they started at a certain level: if they joined a level 15 game, they might just blast away with their damage spells and consider themselves the burliest sorcerer ever, which would be their loss. Likewise, the player starting from level has quite a few sessions ahead of them where they are effectively a barbarian with no rage powers. Perhaps cantrips right away would help mitigate this feeling?

I give this class a 9/10. The utility and robustness of a bloodrager (in combat only) should not be overlooked.

Sczarni

Slacker2010 wrote:

Each feat counts to your daily allotment, I think that is the balancing factor.

What other characters did you group with? How was the interaction between the brawler and other classes?

That's an excellent point about the usage. We didn't play it like that and I think it makes a world of difference.

The brawler benefited greatly from buffs like haste, spider climb and fly - combined with his quick runner's shirt, he focused on getting to the target, and then using his flurry or combat patrol to control the battlefield. Other than that, he would often work in tandem with our swashbuckler to deal damage - he'd grapple and expose the enemy to the swashbuckler, who would take him out. Rinse and repeat.

Sczarni

This is part of a series relating a playtest session my players and I participated in. 6 Players and myself tested characters at level 5 and 15.

The brawler created for this playtest was a pure combat monster - high strength, straight combat feats, items focused on movement and attack/damage.

The level 5 brawler had a +11 to hit, a total of 8 feats (including the class feats and the martial maneuvers ability) and 52 HP, but only 15 AC.

Interestingly enough, combat damage was not that extreme: 1d8+6. That's generally less than a two-handed fighter or barbarian. What was impressive was the already impressive feat count, including free feats and switchable feats. The utility of martial maneuvers was helpful, but not overwhelming - switching between improved grapple or improved disarm, depending on what maneuver seemed best at the time.

The level 15 brawler, now having the fully completed martial maneuvers ability, was able to quickly react to outside events with just the right feat. Having used his extra feats to take a number of prerequisites for other capstone feats, the brawler is able to dynamically control the events happening around him.

Is he above his opponent? Death from above.
Has he almost hit his opponent? Greater weapon focus.
Does he need to have an AC 1 better? Dodge.

etc, etc. With a move action, he can give himself 3 feats, such as every feat in the grapple line. This is incredibly potent, so long as you have a complete knowledge of useful feats. Damage was good but not great, and the brawler still suffered from low AC, but decent hit points. With decent skill points, I was very impressed with this class at high levels.

Likes
Incredible utility and flexibility in combat, and decent skills that allow for out-of-combat functionality as well. With free feats added on top, the Brawler has the freedom of a fighter, to explore any number of feat combinations on a whim.

The AC bonus is helpful but not strong, I think it's well balanced.

The brawler flurry is a good answer to the flurry of blows feature, and I like that it awards you the feat only when you flurry, so you don't qualify for the feat for the purposes of taking other derived feats.

Dislikes
The class has a high hit die, better than fighter skill points, better skill selection, and more feats than a fighter, while sharing its full BAB. This is a class for someone who cares only for combat, but the skill points and free abilities are icing to an already loaded cake. I would drop the skill points down to 2, or reduce the skills available to them.

I think the martial maneuvers ability is amazingly good, but it would be nice to see it attached to another stat - currently you'd be fine just having a high strength. It'd be good to attach another stat to balance the functionality of the class - perhaps Wisdom?

Overall Rating
I give this class an 8/10. The class gets a ton of gifts and has few flaws: with 2 great saves, d10 hit die, full BAB and good skills, this class covers all the bases. Perhaps too many bases, which hampers my ability to give this class a perfect score. The ability to give yourself flexible feats, on top of already present bonus feats, is extremely strong and rewarding. But should any class receive more feats than a fighter?

Sczarni

This is from a session of 6 players + myself, as DM: I am reporting my player's experiences from our playtest sessions.

The Arcanist is a hybrid class with powerful potential that comes at the expense of staying power. It is a min/maxer's dream class, with the ability to pump save DC's and caster levels higher than ever before. Like the other hybrids, it rewards players who know how to optimize the classes it's derived from.

We played the Arcanist at levels 5 and 15. The level 5 Arcanist was a moderately powerful blaster. The level 15 was an extreme one.

For exploits, the character took the Orc Arcana, Potent Magic (the pump DC or CL exploit) and Force Spike. Combat was straightforward - with the use of a point from my pool, I was able to push Scorching Ray up to it's second ray, which meant 2x 4d6+4 ranged touch attacks. This worked well.

Consume spells is handy - if you're certain your utility spells aren't going to be used, you can basically enhance every spell you're going to cast. Generally this is done after combat. There's little concern about holding some low-level damage spells back if you've taken a damaging exploit (I prefer force spike as a finisher, but I can see the potential in others)

What became an issue is being too hasty with consume spells - you can quickly find yourself totally tapped out. This is a non-issue at higher levels (you have far more spells than you'd ever cast) but at lower levels you have to manage your resources carefully.

The level 15 Arcanist was very strong - with Improved Potent Magic and the counterspell exploits, she was both a controller, denying others the ability to cast spells near her, and also a devastating blaster: with careful feats chosen to optimize transmutation magic and the disintegrate spell, here's how her first 2 turns of the 'big boss' fight worked out:

Spell Perfection (Disintegrate) to allow for maximized & empowered disintegrates, for a DC 31 Fortitude Save or 19d6 + 250ish typeless damage.

Combined with a rod of metamagic quicken, this was 2 beams a round for the first 2 rounds: quite savage.

Most of this could have been accomplished by a sorcerer or wizard, but the Arcanist added some previously unavailable enhancements: with metamixing, the orc bloodline, and potent magic, the effectiveness of blaster spellcasting, even at high levels, cannot be discounted.

Likes
Consume Spells allows for extra oomph when it counts. Very strong but it comes at a high cost (at least at early levels) of using resources quickly. If you want to have strong spells all day long, your day is going to be short.

The counterspell exploits are incredibly strong. Honestly, this is what counterspelling needed to become useful - the existing counterspell rules are never used. Controlling the pace of an encounter by locking enemy spellcasters down is very strong. Again, this can quickly sap resources, but that's an acceptable tradeoff.

Skills, Hitpoints, BAB and saves are all appropriate for this class.

Dislikes
The difference between Sorcerer/Wizard and Arcanist is entirely related to their reservoir. With the ability to take the bloodline and school powers, the only reason to go Sorcerer or Wizard is for Archtypes or if you want to benefit from a numerical class ability, like the draconic bloodline breath weapon. Even so, there are plenty of bloodlines that just work without needing to be pumped (see: Orc, Arcane bloodlines) and there is danger of unintended consequences there. I would recommend adjusting these two exploits to say you gain the benefit of the bloodline for 1 minute with the use of 1 point, and the use of another point allows you to treat your Arcanist level as your wizard/sorcerer level for 1 round.

Certain items (ring of wizardry) make the class dramatically more powerful. A ring of wizardry is always good, but generally by the time you can afford one the benefits of twice as many scorching rays or invisibility spells is only marginal. With the Arcanist, you give yourself 4-12 extra reservoir points, which is great. Not sure how one fixes this, though - a reduction on the maximum points in your pool would make the after-combat pool refilling ritual less valuable, but it might also cause issues when refilling your pool at higher levels.

Tomorrow I'm going to post about our Brawler, with his immediate action feats!

Sczarni

Would it be possible for ya'll to cancel my GameMastery card subscription? I have all the card I could ever need, and want to subscribe to another product line now.

Many thanks.