awesometori's page

There seems to be an error in Dispel Magic

The error seems to lie in explaining Targeted Dispel. Or, at least I feel it is an error, because I feel it is not aptly explained. Here is the description in question.

"Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.

For example, a 7th-level caster casts dispel magic, targeting a creature affected by stoneskin (caster level 12th) and fly (caster level 6th). The caster level check results in a 19. This check is not high enough to end the stoneskin (which would have required a 23 or higher), but it is high enough to end the fly (which only required a 17). Had the dispel check resulted in a 23 or higher, the stoneskin would have been dispelled, leaving the fly intact. Had the dispel check been a 16 or less, no spells would have been affected."

Caster level is being used twice, with no explanation for why the second caster level is higher than the first. And, no references to other equations in the core rulebook. So, this should be a place where it is presented clearly. There also seems to be no uniformity within their own equation.

From what I'm understanding of this equation. It should be

Caster Level + Spell Level + 11

For the DC of the dispel.

If we account for a level 8 Sorcerer (who has cast Stoneskin), and the spell level being 4, and adding the base of 11 for the DC. We have the DC that stays within the equation for dispelling Stoneskin (DC 23).

But, once we get to Fly. Level 8 Sorcerer (who has cast Fly) + 3rd level Spell + 11. We have a DC of 22. Which doesn't fit with the description given to dispel Fly (DC 17).

Caster Level in the core rules is described as such:
"A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell."

Using caster level to describe a spell, when it is meant to describe a character's magical abilities, becomes very confusing in this description.

The other conclusion I have come to. Is that, perhaps, the caster's relevant attribute modifier plays a part in this.

Spell Level + Caster Level + Relevant Attribute Modifier + 11

It's wordy, but maybe it will fit better.

Let's say we have a 7th level sorcerer who has casted the initial spells. And, she has a Charisma score of 12. Giving her a +1 modifier to her Charisma.

4 + 7 + 1 + 11 = 23

This fits with the original proposition that the DC for dispelling Stoneskin is 23. Let's see how it applies to Fly.

3 + 7 + 1 + 11 = 22

It is, once again, an equation that doesn't fit with the DC proposed (DC 17)

It feels like to me, that the dispel equation system needs a complete rework, or I need a complete rework because I'm missing something obvious. I've tried multiple equations with the solutions provided to attempt to reverse engineer the solution. And, using caster level to describe a spell, when it is a term meant for characters, is just really throwing me for a loop.

If I'm wrong, someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong, and I'll go hide in the embarrassing corner of the internet with all the other losers who got their panties in a twist when they were wrong. But, if their is an error with the dispel system here, I would love to see it fixed.

Thank you for your time.

Hello! I was told that errors with grammar or typos should be posted here. It's not a grammar issue perse, as much as it's a term confusion.

The error seems to lie in explaining Targeted Dispel. Or, at least I feel it is an error, because I feel it is not aptly explained. Here is the description in question.

"Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.

For example, a 7th-level caster casts dispel magic, targeting a creature affected by stoneskin (caster level 12th) and fly (caster level 6th). The caster level check results in a 19. This check is not high enough to end the stoneskin (which would have required a 23 or higher), but it is high enough to end the fly (which only required a 17). Had the dispel check resulted in a 23 or higher, the stoneskin would have been dispelled, leaving the fly intact. Had the dispel check been a 16 or less, no spells would have been affected."

Caster level is being used twice, with no explanation for why the second caster level is higher than the first. And, no references to other equations in the core rulebook. So, this should be a place where it is presented clearly. There also seems to be no uniformity within their own equation.

From what I'm understanding of this equation. It should be

Caster Level + Spell Level + 11

For the DC of the dispel.

If we account for a level 8 Sorcerer (who has cast Stoneskin), and the spell level being 4, and adding the base of 11 for the DC. We have the DC that stays within the equation for dispelling Stoneskin (DC 23).

But, once we get to Fly. Level 8 Sorcerer (who has cast Fly) + 3rd level Spell + 11. We have a DC of 22. Which doesn't fit with the description given to dispel Fly (DC 17).

Caster Level in the core rules is described as such:
"A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell."

Using caster level to describe a spell, when it is meant to describe a character's magical abilities, becomes very confusing in this description.

The other conclusion I have come to. Is that, perhaps, the caster's relevant attribute modifier plays a part in this.

Spell Level + Caster Level + Relevant Attribute Modifier + 11

It's wordy, but maybe it will fit better.

Let's say we have a 7th level sorcerer who has casted the initial spells. And, she has a Charisma score of 12. Giving her a +1 modifier to her Charisma.

4 + 7 + 1 + 11 = 23

This fits with the original proposition that the DC for dispelling Stoneskin is 23. Let's see how it applies to Fly.

3 + 7 + 1 + 11 = 22

It is, once again, an equation that doesn't fit with the DC proposed (DC 17)

It feels like to me, that the dispel equation system needs a complete rework, or I need a complete rework because I'm missing something obvious. I've tried multiple equations with the solutions provided to attempt to reverse engineer the solution. And, using caster level to describe a spell, when it is a term meant for characters, is just really throwing me for a loop.

If I'm wrong, someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong, and I'll go hide in the embarrassing corner of the internet with all the other losers who got their panties in a twist when they were wrong. But, if their is an error with the dispel system here, I would love to see it fixed.

Thank you for your time.