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Part Three: Glass and Wrath

Against The Goblins:
• 4 Heroes Tsuto and 8 Goblin Warriors
• 5 Heroes Tsuto 8 Goblin Warriors and 1 Goblin Commando
• 6 Heroes Tsuto 8 Goblin Warriors and 2 Goblin Commandos

** spoiler omitted **...

I am running this for 6 players and was directed here from Reddit ans I will say I appreciate the time that went into upscaling the challenges for the whole AP. While I we are done with Book 1 and almost done with Book 2, I wanted to get a better sense of how the adjusted encounters match up to the encounters as written to better understand Joey Virtue’s approach and application of the guide he links at the beginning. I’ll be honest that in many cases, it looks like through Book 1, his approach was mostly to ignore the comparative challenge after the first two Goblin encounters.

What I mean by this is there should, in theory, be a close match of the CRs in the guide to the original ones, increased to account for the increased players and how they increase the Effective Party Level. The EPL for a 4-person party of iconics (Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue) is equal to the Average Party Level. So four 1st level iconics equal APL & EPL 1. An Average Challenge for them should be a CR of equal value. When you add additional characters, their EPL increases, even though their APL should be the same as the 4-man band. So five 1st level characters would be EPL 2. So an average challenge for them would then be CR 2. I think six characters works out to be EPL 2.5 - 3. And of course gear lated on will play a factor. If the party is under geared for their level, they are -1 EPL and overgeared may increase the EPL.

Now, looking at the first couple encounters, Initial Assault is written to be a CR 1 encounter. Pretty average. And for six 1st level players, Joey adjusted it to CR 3. On point. CR = EPL for the larger group. Goblin Pyro follows suit. As written is is CR 2 and the adjusted one is CR 4. Die, Dog! die continues this. There isn’f a CR assigned, but the total xp works out to be between CR 3-4 and Joey’s revision mirrors at CR 5-6. But after this, things stay from the scaling adjustments. Some of this appears to account for not doing the side quests in Local Heroes. So the Boar Hunt is written to be CR 2, or a Challenging Encounter, but Joey’s works out to be a CR 6. As we move into the Glassworks, Guard cave is written as CR 2 and the party is expected fi be level 2 at this point, so an average challenge, but the upscale is CR 6. That’s a pretty big jump in the expected resource usage and they still have several rooms to go thru.

As we continue our comparison, next encounter is Washing Pool, written to be CR 2, adjusted to CR 5. This isn’t a glaring difference, but this should be an Average encounter and should be CR 4. From the Washing Pool, the characters head to Ancient Prison, originally written for CR 4, but upscaled to 7 continuing the trend of overcorrecting the encounter. Prisoner Pit should be CR 4, but the available xp sits it between CR 6-7. cathedral of Wrath is meant to be the mini boss and set for CR 5 and upscaled to also being between CR 6-7. At this point, Joey had the characters advanced ti Level 3, a bit ahead of the level outline where it says they should be early in their adventuring in Thistletop (unless if course you added several suggested side quests in Part 2.). I’d also note that it is expected that if the CR = your EPL, then the encounter should take about 25% of the party’s resources. Overcorrecting leads to running out of resources early and requires a return to town to rest and recover and may mean areas have an opportunity to replenish or communicate with the BBEG.

How does Thistletop compare? Sone areas were left alone and I will note these as “NC”. Also note, since the characters are now level 3 and treasure has been pretty good, their EPL is about 5.

Refugee Nest CR 4, up to CR 5.
Dog Kennel CR 5 up to CR 6.
Tangletooth NC.
Gogmurt's Lair CR 4 up to CR 6.
Rope Bridge NC.
Thistletop CR CR 5 up to CR 7
The Dragon Above, not in the original CR 6-7
Pickle Thieves NC
Barrack CR 3 up to CR 5
Eastern Guard Tower NC
Exercise Yard CR 5 up to CR 6
Caged Horse NC
Throne Room CR 6 up to CR 8
Treasury NC
Bunyip CR 3 up to CR 6
Chief’s Harem CR 4 up to CR 6
Otik’s Chamber NC
Tentamort’s Hunting Ground CR 4 up to CR 6
Chapel to Lamashtu CR 5 up to CR 7,
Research Room CR 3 to CR 6
Trapped Room NC
Here they Level to 4, but may not have had a chance to improve their gear yet. Also there is no good place to really rest unless they decide to head back to town. If the characters push on, they are probably running on fumes. I’d still be counting them as EPL 5 here.

Crypt CR 6 up to 7
Collapsed Treasury NC
Malfeshnekor’s Prison NC

Ok, we made it. Overall, Thistletop is pretty closely aligned to the initial challenges compared to EPL. I’d say the middle sections are pretty overtuned and that may lead to troubles early on and something to watch as the books continue. Hopefully the rambling helps someone.

Hello Ashwynfaust,

The other posters are correct. The Paizo Advantage discount comes from either a subscription to the Pathfinder Adventure Path, or a subscription to all 4 physical Starfinder lines. You mentioned that you may cancel your subscription, did you want me to do that?

Yes. It is just not of any benefit for me to be subscribed without any discount attached to it.

From a business stand point, offering incentives to get players to buy into a new game creates repeat customers. People are already bought into Pathfinder and have shown they will continue to comeback for more and more content. There is a reason why product provides offer new customer discounts and lower cost for newer products. They are trying to create a fan base/customer base.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't make sense to my pocket book to pay full price for the AP to get a book that will collect dust (I run almost exclusively from PDFs). Since Paizo is demonstrating that they don't value their Starfinder customers, might as well rollback my spending on the product.

That is fairly ridiculous. So in Pathfinder land you save 30% on the AP cover price AND you get 15% off, but in Starfinder land you pay full price for the AP AND you have to subscribe to three other subscriptions to get the SAME discount? How does that actually incentivize the subscription? Sounds like I will stop the subscription and stop wasting money.

I have been a longtime subscriber for Adventure path. I recently swapped it over to starfinder adventure path and am now no longer receiving any discounts on my purchases.

I am sorry if this has already been asked (I tried to do a search first, and didn't find anything). In the core rule book, it indicates that there will be a free downloadable character sheet. Does anyone have a link for it? It doesn't seem to be under the Pathfinder free downloads (which makes sense). Will there be a separate sheet for ships that will also be available for download?

Yes, I know that there is an expanded character sheet if I do the Character Folio or can print from the book itself. But was curious for the resource that is specifically mentioned in the book itself.

I love the idea of these performances, though I am still a bit iffy on bards having access to them. I am a bit disheartened that there are only two examples given and hope that perhaps the community can come up with some more.

I am all for the Humble Bundle offer that Paizo is doing. However, it seems like those files should be able to be downloaded (and personalized) by a different server. I am sure someone probably already recommended that, but couldn't they set up something where those downloads don't affect the main downloads for regular subscribers and other customers can get non-Humble Bundle downloads? Split the workload, improve overall customer experience?

Keneticist (fire) that is actually a channeler of Hellfire...

DM has already OK'd an infusion that allows damage from my fire based effects to be 1/2 fire, 1/2 unholy.

I'm currently looking at creating a wild talent that functions as "Death Knell Aura" as her hellfire is meant to be fueled by souls.

I'm also looking for a precedent for souls being obliterated (not subject to reincarnation etc) as that seems particularly evil (in a fluff sort of way)

This is actually a really cool concept, though the idea of hellfire being fueled by souls does give it a WoW Warlock feel. As for obliterating a soul, that would need to be a high level ability.

First I want to say that I honestly appreciate the inclusion of homosexual characters in Pathfinder, Queen Ileosa and Sabina for example, as most RPGs seem to ignore this group completely. However it seems to me that Paizo has fallen into the trap of only making female gay characters. What I would like to see are some gay male characters and transsexuals in Golarion, the women have had their fun, let the boys and anyone in between in on it as well!

Also, I would like to see some information on how these groups are generally treated in the various societies on Golarion (most of what I've seen up til now seems to be quite progressive, but I doubt that is true for the entire world).

I am sure in all of the posts someone has pointed out that there was a gay male couple in Wrath of the Righteous.

As far as treatment, as with skin color, it seems that Golarion doesn't treat homosexual, bisexual, or transgendered characters any differently than anyone else.