Baron Hannis Drelev

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1. Vivisectionist Alchemist - While perhaps a bit of a cheese option, I really like the idea of an evil/neutral surgeon who uses their knowledge of anatomy to strike precisely with their mutagenic form. Plus cool extras for bonus utility and flavor. I have a scale-heart nicknamed Doc Croc who I wrote I an overly long backstory for, because I just really liked how his abilities and thematics came together.

2.Anything Hellknight - This is a cheat, but I have a major soft spot for those medieval Judge Dreads, especially the order of Godclaw. So the paladin Order against Chaos(I liked having the option to still smite evil), the warpriest and oracle archetypes were both good too. Tho depending on what you do with prestige classes effects these.

3.Sacrament Alchemist - Implemented didn't grab me but the base idea of a divine brewer of potions(or magic booze ;p) or poison, bombs of holy fire etc. Same concept could be achieved by giving alchemy stuff to the cleric too I suppose.

4.Monk of the Four Winds - Is just fun by leaning hard into the mysticism and tweaking the focus a bit towards combat (tho not entirely). Aspect Master is just rife for interesting role play as well as some giving some handy moment options. Also being immortal and invincible (kinda) is nice.

5.Champion of Iori - I like the PrC, the fact the Iroran Paladin can't take it (you need smite as a requirement, which the archetype looses) seemed odd to me. Being wise, charismatic, ok skills and still hit hard against evil doers while wielding and wearing largely nothing, I sounds fun to me (if a little MAD).

Honorable Mentions - a fair few had mentioned these already
Virtuous Bravo - while the Cayden Cailean options for fighter are rad, having a divine duelist is still appealing

zen archer - Brilliant archer while still having a bit of melee power

lore warden - while the advanced training options make it less necessary than before it's still a cool concept


So I have a mutation fighter build that takes the various CC related feats. And after the fermenter archetype hit I remembered the brewmaster PrC and thought "Hey that fighter could have a drinking buddy". So this is a plan for a possible cohort/PC build. Role wise I was thinking of a mix of support and ranged debuff, since the alchemist does both of those easy and brewkeeper enhances both. Option or spaces marked with a ? are things I'm unsure of.

spoiler:

Halfling Alchemist(Fermenter)10, Brewkeeper 10
Could maybe stop at 6 levels of the PrC to nab a few more & better discoveries. But the later homebrew debuffs are pretty good.

Deity - Cayden Cailean

Drawback:
Mark of Slavery?

Traits:
Perfectionist’s Brew
Accelerated Drinker
Pragmatic Activator or other?

Basic fluff so far is a chelaxian halfling who avoided/was saved from slavery by CC's church, they're allowed a very small presence in that country if I recall right.

Str 10
Dex 17
Con 15
Int 15
Wis 10
Cha 12

Could dump Cha a bit but that seems wrong for a character who should be at least half decent at a pub sing-along and such.

Brewkeeper Homebrews:
Helpful - Extend or Tenacious?
Harmful - Entangled
Helpful - Empower
Helpful - Maximize
Harmful - Dazed
Helpful - ?
Harmful - Exhausted
Helpful - ?

Discoveries:
Tumor Familiar(Valet) - Monkey or Hare?
A valet without opposable thumbs feels a bit dumb but Hare's have a useful bonus and feel more halfling appropriate.

Both infusion and enhance potion are covered by the PrC.
Cytillesh Bomb - It's effects of sickening and memory loss seem appropriate.
Vestigial Arm - I feel an extra arm would be useful.
Breath Weapon Bomb - thinking of it like booze based fire breathing.
Holy Bomb? - thematically appropriate and likely to be relevant but still not a guarantee.
Lasting Tinctures?
Spontaneous Healing?

So there are two things that decide a number of possible racial trait and feat choices, whether a flask thrower can be treated as a sling-staff* or if sling ammo can be used for the explosive missile discovery. No where in the flask thrower description does it use the word sling, so as standard it doesn't count. But the way it's described and functions is like a specialized sling. Explosive missile does not mention sling bullets in it's description, but if you can somehow apply it to a firearm bullet I don't see how it couldn't apply to sling bullets. I know this would be up to the the GM but I'm curious of folks thoughts. If either of these were a yes, then grabbing warslinger alternate trait and going slipslinger style tree would be tempting.

Feats:
Deific Obedience(Cayden Cailean)
Diverse Obedience(Cayden Cailean)?
The default exalted boons are good for this build, but gaining them faster is also nice.

Lengthy Potion[CL10]
Vaporous Potion - potential but fuzzy possibilities with a sling.

Drunken Brawler[Endurance]?
Drunkard's Recovery?
Artful Dodge?
Toughness?
Improved Initiative?
Craft Wondrous Item?


No ideas on how the this description is supposed to read?


So hopefully this should be a simple question. In the revelation description it states;

"Whenever you would gain one of your deity’s boons, you can instead gain the benefits of another Godclaw deity’s obedience"

Now does this mean you get the boon from the same level of a different deity of the Godclaw or does it mean you get the ability to perform the obedience and get the related bonus for that deity? The reason I wonder is also in the description it also states;

"You never need to spend more than 1 hour per day to perform your obedience"

This which seems like kind of pointless clarification, unless you have multiple obedience rituals you can do. Obviously getting the actual boons is way better than just the obedience so I thought this worth checking


I understand your feelings, there are a lot of deity options, why turn this mysterious character into another. Especially as the only time he's alleged to have done anything after his exile, was to try and complete the book of the damned.

I didn't mean to step on any toes it's just meant for my own use. Out the many options only two felt like they kind of fit what an envoy of balance is alleged to do (Goreze and Breigh).

Out of curiosity though would it change your mind at all if those who he did give power to were sworn to only observation of events and presumably self-defence?


Ah I didnt know that thanks.

Domains: Knowledge, Madness, Rune, Travel
Subdomains: Aeon, Exploration, Toil, Truth

Took out the ones I was least sure about.


So I know it's a little against the fluff to come up with portfolio stat block (or whatever it should be called) for Tabris, as it's specifically stated in chronicles of the righteous pdf that some do worship him but get nothing from it. But after looking at making a cleric+Envoy of Balance build, and happened to be looking in the CoR I thought how good a fit he would be. Below is my initial go at coming up with some ideas

Tabris, The Chronicler
Angel empyreal lord of Truth, Balance and Exploration
Alignment: N
Symbol: ?
Temples: libraries, secluded ruins, public forums
Worshippers: scholars, revolutionists,
Minions: Bythos aeon, counterpoised owls, Nosoi Psychopomp, theletos aeon
Domains: Knowledge, Luck, Madness, Rune, Travel
Subdomains: Aeon, Exploration, Loss, Toil, Revelation, Isolation, Truth
Favoured Weapon: ?

So first off, while a very small thing I'm unsure whether it's still right to refer to him as an empyreal lord or not. Maybe putting "(former)" after lord. Aside from maybe something involving a tattered grey angel wing I have no idea on a symbol. For temples I just translated his above themes into places which feels a little like cheating. Very few ideas for worshippers and again nothing for favoured weapon.

All ideas or criticisms welcome.


Thanks for the clear and consise answer. So in the case of options that do specify a damage type (such as elemental fist) does the extra damage do lethal, unless of course the description for that ability states otherwise?


So my main question is: If you are choosing to deal non-lethal damage with a weapon (with or without penalty) and you are using smite (good/evil/etc) is the extra damage from smite still lethal damage?

I know of the Redeemer and it's merciful smite, but that also removes the fairly serious -4 attack penalty as well as everything else smite does.

As a follow up, apart from the merciful enchantment is there anyway to make bonus damage from class abilities & feats non-lethal?


So because I'm unoriginal this build is a modification of a build from Iconic Design, but because I've changed things and wonder about choices for the later levels I can't resist the urge to pester you fine folk for ideas.

The build:
Aasimar(Musetouched) - From Dragon Empire Tianjing for fluff
Scion of Humanity trait?

Deity: Shelyn

Paladin(Virtuous Bravo) 4/Mesmerist(Vexing Trickster) 3/
Devoted Muse ?/Paladin whatever remains

Paladin
lvl
1 Weapon Focus (glaive)
Bonus: Weapon Finesse

3 Bladed Brush

Mesmerist
4 Trick:Levitation Buffer

5 Improved Feint
Trick:?
Bonus:Combat Expertise

6 Bold Stare:Psychic Inception
Bonus trick feat:Swap Trick

And at level 7 going into Devoted Muse.

And from there it's a question of how many levels of Muse do I take. I think 5 is the minimum, 6 is very tempting for inspirational strike and the extra feat. After that there's nothing amazing till masterful strike at level 10. Obviously at some point picking up Mesmerizing Feint and maybe Greater MF to ensure getting the debuffs off. Obviously Slashing Grace is also an obvious choice. GM and I also talked about a homebrew variation of channel force that makes it actually useful for positive channelers, so thats also on the table.
So any thoughts on levels, feats and also what few spells I get.


Not sure if this works as spell specifies type animal and familiars are treated as magical beasts for anything type related. But my first thought was the spell Anthropomorphic Animal, though I don't know if it's on the usual perminancy options list (Vivisectionist can do that tho). There's also the Decoy familiar archetype that lets the familiar pretend to be you in voice and latter appearance as per alter self.


Was deciding on the basics of making a build based off of this guide and looked at wizard VMC. It seems like it could work ok with a number of builds if you choose options to fit the class(not many for non-casters but there are some).

The abilities you get function at your class level (a number of the other VMC's do not) so while you get them late you can get some nice stuff. Transmutation looked like a good option for a little self buffing and rounding off possible weaknesses in a build. Also the discovery at 15 means you could get some of the higher ones like time stutter or true name.


At the risk of being redundant since you found a solution. Assuming you mean a way for characters in game to resize something, I would assume it's a craft check of some kind as they'd have to partialy rebuild the weapon.
As they have a number of re-usable parts they should probably get a reduction on costs but would still need enough skill in craft(advanced firearms/explosives/whatever).
Also there's a question on access to smaller rockets to go in it so magic resizing is probably the simplist solution.


So came back to this build because I ran across the errata to MoMS. Changing the feat order was simple though it pushes Pummeling Charge back a ways. However because of that I got looking at it and wondered about whether it would be worth working Sap Adept,Master and Knockout Artist into the build. Which in turn got me wondering whether to keep with feinting or go the Enforcer & Shattered Defenses for flat-footing targets.

So the choices for feat bundles are:

Acrobatic
Slayer's Feint
Improved Feint
Greater Feint
Two-weapon Feint
No need for Imp. Tw Feint as Greater Feint does the same but better. There are two pre.req feats I don't mention above as I'm taking them already anyway.

Or

Intimidating Prowess
Enforcer
Dazzaling Display
Shatter Defenses

So the later uses fewer feats but not using feint means one of the builds class features is waisted. Now could add in Visceral Threat to help but it would really need Improved Feint too make the most of it.

Action economy:
Acrobatic Feint - move action(including as part of a charge I think which is important for Pummeling charge) or subbing the first TWF attack in a round, lasts for two rounds.

Intimidate - any attack or using a full for DD, lasts as long as their shaken.

Intimidate has the best and worst action options.

Also as levels increase which check is more likely to succeed, assuming max ranks in both, is important:
Acrobatics = +dex+4(acrobatic feat) vs 10+sense motive mod or 10+BAB+wis
Intimidate = +Str-Cha(race is Orc) vs 10+HD+Wis

Advice is very welcome but I appreciate this is an old thread.


Elder Basilisk wrote:
It's not as the additional buffs you could get by eschewing the cavalier mount are terribly consequential. (Banner doesn't stack with morale bonuses from bless or banner of the ancient kings).

Thanks for the advice but I'm not too worried about Bless as it's out done by banner and I'm probably trading out spell-casting anyway. Banner's bonuses are moral which does stack with BoAK's circumstance and resistance bonuses. Banner doesn't stack with the Flagbearer feat whose bonuses are doubled by BoAK. I may not take Flagbearer but as later I get almost full banner progression I think it's worth having that class feature. However I will look into how many levels of cavalier get what bonuses together with BH by the end as It might be worth the extra levels. Also while not massive bonuses it begins to add up when you introduce some of the others and also effects that boost moral typed bonuses.

And as far as Inspire courage goes, it's attack and damage bonuses are typed as competence so they stack fine. The saves are moral so they don't however BH uses the IC bonus for a bunch of other abilities. And on the off chance something happens to the banner there's a back up bonus for saves.

Elder Basilisk wrote:
In fact, in some ways it goes nicely with buffing. A level appropriate mount is a great vehicle for turning buffs into crushed enemies.

It is true a full level animal companion would make great use of the buffs I'm putting out on top of the npc's gained through leadership. Unfortunately I made a rookie error and I would in fact need paladin5/cavalier4 to take Horse master and get full mount with the paladin powers (assuming it's GM allowed) and that puts off BH far longer than I'd like.


So I rather like the battle herald as a PrC and preferred the Cavalier+Cleric way of getting into it both mechanical and thematically. But now with the oath mentioned in the title (from Divine Anthology), paladin can now gets bardic performance and can be used instead.

So while the small amount of casting you could get with 1-4 levels of Cleric may allow for better buffing over all, I think paladin makes the build into a solid tank without having to spend feats or self buff (or not as much at least). So you can buff mostly passively with class abilities, buff actively with aid another and when the enemy tries to put you down for it all you will be much harder to do so.

As a quick aside I have been looking at this guide for inspiration.

The main question for the build is the same as it normally is for this PrC, how many levels of each requirement class to take & what class options & archetypes could be useful for the build. I think even if your not getting casting, more levels of paladin are probably more useful unless you go 5 levels of cavalier to get both banner & mount and go into BH a level late.

Cavalier Order - Lion and Dragon are obviously solid. Order of the Star is perhaps a little better than it would be as your not loosing out on cleric spells if you put more levels in cavalier, but It's still probably inferior even though I prefer it fluff wise.

Cavalier Archetypes:
Standard Bearer - if taking only one or two levels this is almost a must
Esquire - good either way but I'd kind of like to keep getting banner early, so if I take it ill want to take the first 5 levels of cavalier. Also it's unclear if the aide holding your banner includes purchased magical banners and therefore if the flag bearer feat still applies.

Paladin Archetypes:
Oath of the People’s Council - Can't do this build without it
Divine Defender - trade a single mercy for a +1 sacred to AC, CMD & saves for you & allies. Does lock you into divine bond(armour) though.
Warrior of the Holy Light - trade a single 1st level spell for +1 morale to AC,attack, damage and saves vs fear(though the save bonus won't stack with inspire courage)

While it doesn't really fit with the build focus on buffing the idea of taking paladin5/cavalier1(no archetype) to combine mount powers and (with GM approval as it's a bit iffy)then use horse master to keep the paladin mount progression.

whether going Str or Dex, melee or range will be affected by the above choices though thematically I'd prefer melee and probably Str, also the banner of AK requires being attacked to a longspear so if i'm the on holding it I need to be good at using it.


Get both what?


@Secret Wizard: I gain a lot of options with Adv.W training to increase saves & AC instead of (or as well as) using feats. But Ithe loss of 4 points of DR/-, free fortification and immunity to sneak & crit aint nothing (MBStyle gives +5 to Touch AC at the end game which is only one less than Deflective Shield) and some of those freed up feat slots get used getting back the DR and such, might still be a fair trade tho. More options to consider, thanks very much you've both been very helpful.


Pummeling Style does more than just allow me to move and attack on a turn. Tho even on that score PStyle is better than flying kick. I don't want to go unchained for more than those two levels because I like both the thematics of the character and mechanics this style combo has with the brawler's abilities.
But in regard to taking those two level you do get a lot for going unchained and if I want to use it in a game where the GM isn't comfortable allowing it's compatability with the archetypes I've used then I'll consider it. But my local guy is ok with it so for now assume I'm using unchained for those two levels.


True adamantium doesn't stack but that's only a loss of DR3/-. I suppose hoping to get to lvl 20 for DR22/- for only -4 attk is kinda dumb. Point distribution priority looks good. Depending on party composition and how skill competent I wasn't to be I may swap human for Oni-spawn(+2 Str & Wis, -2Cha) and just be the mostly unlikeable fighter.

I may rearrange feats so not all the offensive stuff is back loaded, my focus may be more to AC but as I have to reach level 8 or so to be able to use the tower shield well, I need to live that long.

Thanks for all your help this will pretty much be the build I go for and I don't think i spotted impact so thanks for pointing it out.


Ah right I had the shield repositioning abilities separate in my head tho looking at it now I don't know why. It is unclear of what use Immediate Repositioning has if not to interrupt attacks (unless you can use it to block AoE's?). But yes the feat chain does it better again, so that's 3 of 5 abilities of TSS shot so there is little point in not taking Armour master instead.

Good point on saving off on actually using a tower shield. While nabbing shield focus makes using a shield a bit more appealing I'd still considering just using the Nodachi (which was also my pick of weapon for this :) ) 2-handed to start with.

I agree with grabbing Grtr Focus but since armour master gives fortification I'm less sold on Shield Specialization. True it also will give me a +4/5/6 bonus to CMD (thanks to shield focus & Grtr) which is nothing to sneer at but I just feel like the feats could be spent on better feats. Such as the somewhat naff preqs to get the Stalwart feats (which expressly say they stack with DR from class features) for DR25/- (assuming adamantium armour) at the end game. Or as you say dodge or racial feats, such as tiefling armour of the pit. Or just feats to shore up my will save more or my reflex. And I'm ok with this not being super optimal, sword and board has sadly rarely been that good a choice


Just bumping this to maybe get some thoughts. Especially as wether swapping Monk for Unchained Monk (assume GM allows for the simple modifications to get the archetypes to work) would be worth the hit to the all ready poor Will saves.


@Secret Wizard: Bulette style is an interesting style but I don't think it's the type of style I want for this build, thanks tho.

@Darksol the Painbringer: I'll agree that MBStyle makes two of the archetype features (attk penalty removal & touch AC bonus) redundant. And I have now realised the class giving full base is almost certainly worse in the long term than the feat chains giving half of both base and enchantment.
But everything else you get from the class still works as far as I can tell and all the feat abilities also work. What in armour training description says that combining ACP's isn't allowed. And even if it does, presumably this we be a case of the specific (the feat) overriding the general (an ability written before the feats existence)?

Also, aside from the penalty reductions not applying to the shield what loop hole issues are there in the archetype?

Sorry if this sounds like I'm trying to contradict, I just want to see what I'm missing.

But yes going Armour master would be a good way to compliment MBS instead. one reason getting the ACP of the tower shield alone down to 0 would be to use the Shield Brace feat in conjunction. It allows 2handed spears or polearms to be used one handed with a shield, taking the ACP of the shield as a penalty to attack. I rather like the visual of it and it means slightly better weapon damage dice.


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So reading through the various feats in the new armour handbook and the mobile bulwark style & tower shield specialist feat got me thinking about the Tower Shield Specialist archetype from Ultimate Combat. So I was wondering whether throwing all these things together would make something fun and viable if maybe not super optimal.

Feat info:

Mobile Bulwark Style
Reqs:Str 13, Shield Focus, TS proficient, BAB +1
Add shield’s AC & enhancement bonuses to CMD vs bull rush & overrun.
When in the style, you can set the edge of total cover as a move action.

Mobile Fortress
Reqs:As above except Str 15, MB Style & BAB +4
Add shield’s AC & enhancement bonuses, halved, to touch AC, only –1 penalty on attack rolls. When in the style grant any adjacent ally total cover against attacks passing through the covered edge.

Mobile Stronghold
Reqs:As above except Str 17, Mobile Fortress & BAB +7
No penalty on attack rolls. When in the style, whenever you use a tower
shield to gain total cover, you (& adjacent allies) also gain partial cover vs spells passing through the set edge. Also when in the style, as an immediate or swift action, gain total cover against a single attack made against you.

Tower Shield Specialist[Feat]
Reqs:Shield Focus, TS proficient, BAB +11 or fighter lvl8
Reduce the armour check penalty for tower shields by 3, if you have armour training class feature, modify armour check penalty and max Dexterity of tower shields as if they were armour.

Tower Shield Specialist Archetype is here

So there's a bit of redundancy between almost all of what Fortress (an a little of Stronghold) gives and what the archetype gives. Tho I think to get the thrid feat in the chain and get penalty reductions & extra AC a little sooner it's probably worth it. Willing to hear other thoughts on that.

Now the Specialist feat is interesting because it helps to considerably reduce the skill check & Dex penalty of a tower shield.

Start: -10 check penalty, +2 Dex.
With Specialist feat: +3 skill penalty = -7, +2
Armour Training 1: +3, +2 = -4, +4

However I'm unclear if armour training is applied to the tower shield stats and then again to the armour's stats. It would seem useless for the Specialist feat to say it can get applied to the shield if it can only be applied to one of them at a time, but also it sounds just a little too good if it does apply to both for a total of +6 off check penalties.

Regardless of the above there are now two choices on how to remove the remove the remaining penalties:
Take armour training 2 to 4 OR Get a mithril tower shield (another +3, +2) & a trait. Allowing for advanced armour training options.

Which is better probably depends largely on what armour is being used on top of the shield, which in turn depends on what type of build I go for. Has to be Str based due to the feat requirements. Beyond that my first thought is perhaps predictably a tank.


Fairly simple concept. Combining the two styles to become a wrecking machine. While I'm sure it's not going to be out damaging a min/max'ed class with full sneak, I think its fun, comes together quite quickly and would like advice on any flaws.

Name: Takamora - if you get the reference 'high-five'

Race: Orc(Dayrunner trait)

Traits:
Adopted(Latent Psion) - To shore up will saves a bit
Vengeful - Because damage

Str>Dex>Con>Brain stuff - Depending on points and the likelyhood of it coming back to bite you, dump mental stats completely to get more points for the physical ones.

Classes: Monk(MoMS & Iron Mountain) 2/ Brawler(Snakebite Striker) 18

Level

1 - Power Attack
Bonus: Pummeling Style - Monk bonus feats bypassing the BAB requirment
Fixed: Stunning Fist

2 - Bonus: Pummeling Charge
- Fixed: Toughness

Brawler
3 - Dragon Style

4 - Bonus: Combat Expertise
- Attribute: Dex

5 - Dragon Ferocity

7 - Combat Style Master - Keeping your winning style combo on from round 1
- Bonus: Two-weapon Feint

8 - Attribute: Dex

9 - Acrobatic

10 - Bonus: Slayer's Feint

11 - Improved Two-Weapon Feint

12 - Attribute: Dex

13 - Weapon Focus(UaS)
- Bonus: Combat Reflexes - To make use of the next feat

15 - Counterpunch

16 - Bonus: Improved Feint
- Attribute: Con

17 - Elemental Fist(Fire) - This is where i just start filling gaps

19 - Ironhide
- Bonus: Grudge Fighter

20 - Attribute: Con

So the main focus is the damage output gained from dealing 1x1/2 Str + a little SA on all attacks which is then applied all at once by pummeling style, plus pounce.
A secondary focus on feinting to get more use out of the SA and other features the SS archetype gives, but maybe it's not worth it in the long run.
Ability points could be lumped into Str for more damage but there is some fluff inspiration for this and Counterpunch (requires dex 18) was mandatory for that, for more min/max'ing it could be stripped out for something else and more Str being piled on.


Theres an investigator who's going to work with this character who's the 'other side of the coin' as it were. So you have the scary vigilantly who goes out and collects info through being scary and beating+interrogating low level goons and going where a law abiding person generally can't. The investigator questions the those higher up and puts all the facts together to try and figure out whats going on. Basically if you combined the two you get Batman, if that makes sense.


@Secret Wizard: The deity would be Ragathiel(empyreal lord of vengeance). The fluff was there for the non-lethal angle to work, but that is a good trait. I'm not fussed on Cudgeler Style and it's still pretty feat intensive.

@Chess Pwn: The bonus damage is less than a 10d6 class. The bonuses to skills and such might help balance it out(my GM is ok with me checking the usefulness of such things beforehand for a given campaign). But It's still a point I need to consider.

I think I have two conflicting aspects to the character (the part that wants to scare and maim people and the part that wants to not kill them), so I'll have to think on that.

In the meantime I would really like people's opinion on the grey guard in general. Is it worth the losses?


bump

Also I realized I needed to add/amend that list of feats;

Bludgeoner(maybe)
Power Attack, Hurtful
Sap Adept, Sap Master
Weapon Focus
Dazzling Display, Shatter Defenses, Violent Display, Intimidating Bane(maybe)
Enforcer(maybe)

If the feat progression feels too slow I can always just use a sap and leave Bludgoner till later, if at all. While Enforcer combined with hurtful could lead to getting an extra attack every round, it simple might not be necessary as the DD feats are probably enough to keep things shaken and Violent Display could chain with hurtful in the same way.


On page 20 of Pathfinder Chronicles:Faction Guide is a section on the Hellknights. Including what each rank requires/has in terms of TPA & CPA and how many plebs they get at each rank. I'll list the relevant info below as well as the equivalent military ranks as listed in Council of Theives book 3's info on hellknights in case it's useful.

Master of Blades[Colonel]: "team of 3 paralictors (including their subordinates). If the character is assigned to a citadel, her paralictors gain armigers and support staff."

EDIT:Sadly doesn't seem to say anywhere what level a paralictor is so that's your call.

Paralictor[Major]: "team of 1 maralictor (5th-level fighter) and 5–8 Hellknights[rank-an-file solider] (3rd-level fighters); one of the Hellknights may instead be a signifer{equivalent to Hellknight] (3rd-level cleric, sorcerer, or wizard). If the paralictor is assigned to a citadel, she also gains 10–20 armigers[Squire] (2nd-level fighters) and a support staff (5–10 noncombatant 1st-level commoners and experts) to handle the needs of her subordinates."

It doesn't say the a trickle down effect gets you the Maralictor's goons but I thought I'd list them anyway so you have the choice.

Maralictor[Lieutenant]: "team of 4–6 armigers (2nd-level fighters)."

Soooo ye, up to you to decided how much of the above the player gets and whether it counts toward his Leadership guys as well.

EDIT: Also a quick aside, the faction guide also lists some services that would be available to them by spending CPA. Just something else you may want to consider whether you give them access to it or not.


So ever since I read the Gray Gardener(link) PrC I've like the idea of an inquisitor as a sort of vigilantly crime fighter, like a divine medieval Punisher/Batman/etc. With ACG's Sanctified Slayer(link) I hoped it was more viable. However, tho I really like the flavor of the GG, mechanically I'm not sure what's gained is worth what's lost. Also the theme/build is a nonlethal+intimidate and the later abilities are about killing dudes and keeping them dead which makes them less useful/appealing.

To make the build really break faces requires a fair number of feats:

  • Bludgeoner
  • Hurtful
  • Sap Adept, Sap Master
  • Power Attack

  • Enforcer
  • AND/OR
  • Dazzling Display, Shatter Defenses

Now you can get some of the above (and others possible useful ones) from the GG, meaning it reduces the feat load and helps bring the build together sooner.(Also a 2 level dip in Cavalier of the Cockatrice helps.)

So the first question is whether this PrC is worth those extra feats and the little extras it gives?

Second question) Gendarme OR Huntsmaster archetype for the Cavalier dip? One gets power attack, the other gives an animal companion(dog/bird). I think a bird would pretty cool thematically. Also useful for getting off team work feats (hopefully there'll be an archetype like the Valet familiar before long). But I'd need boon companion to keep it from getting out leveled too completely, which is another feat. Probably not worth it but I can't bring myself to fully dismiss it tho.

Third question) Again one I think I know the answer to but want confirmation. The consensus I've seen is that Str based Inquisitors are better than Dex based. But I recall that was partly due in part to the judgments. However as I'm trading that (at least partially depending on whether I use GG or not) for sneak and studied target I wonder if investing into Dex could work? It would help deal with MAD as I'd rather not use heavy armor.

Any amount of advice is appreciated.


I suppose the limit for the samurai has a purpose, as they can't spend resolve uses for anything other than resolve (plus greater & true resolve). Guess I could change it so you can spend points for immediate uses without limit, but you can't store them for later.

Moved quick draw to 1st level. Anyone is more than welcome to use it if they find it to their liking.


I got rid of the highlighting and the lines. As far as phrasing goes. If theres particular instance that read weird then let me know.

Puna'chong wrote:
1) Resolve

The wording is odd but that's how it is in the samurai description and I'm not sure how else to phrase it. I take it to mean you can spend points infinity to regain a daily use, but you can't 'hold' more than your limit at any one time. So if you have 2 uses, and you use them up, you can spend 4 points to regain both but no more beyond that, but as soon as you use one, you can spend points to regain another use.

Puna'chong wrote:
2) Third level

Could maybe move quick draw to 1st level? A bit iffy as kick-up is a 3rd level deed but I don't think it would be terribly broken.

Puna'chong wrote:
3) quick draw master

Got rid of the cost, I was trying to keep the deeds similar but I've broken that rule in other cases so why not here. Considering theres a lot of things to want to spend points on it probably balances.


Ok, here is a Google doc [link] of how it looks at the moment.

I'm pretty happy with it. It changes a lot but no more than some other archetypes do. I changed the type of Lightning Strike's extra damage to weapon damage instead of precision, as I am concerned about it not matching up to Precise Strike's lower but more consistent damage. I have put notes in [] to give credit when I've copied an ability from somewhere (aside from the super obvious stuff).

I'm debating starting a new thread for ease of access to the doc and for clarity, though I'd have a link back to this thread just in case.

As ever all constructive feedback is welcome


Puna'chong wrote:
"Panache" gets replaced with "Grit,"...have the pool be based on Charisma + Wisdom, and regaining points only happens when the character kills an opponent.

While you can get more points from a dual mod pool, it also adds to the MAD of the character. Also I just personally prefer the total swap (of which the gunslinger has a few). However I do agree with perhaps making point regain happen only on a kill, as flurrying with a high crit range weapon will produce a lot of crits (even more so when you add things that increase that). So perhaps to offset that the dual mod pool is needed. Names will get decided at the end as I'm mostly concerned on the mechanics. For while thematics are important 'a pool by any other name would still fuel sweet deeds'. Comparing it as a mirror to the Inspired blade is interesting, but there are a number of ways to interpret this style and I'd be apprehensive at suggesting it can't or shouldn't be viewed in X way.

Puna'chong wrote:
I am worried about...

Flurry is worth 3 an a bit feats. The extra bit and some more is balanced out by limiting it to a single weapon but I'm uncertain by how much (I looked at the Whirlwind Dance deed as a point of reference as it's also comparable to three feats). And as those three feats are given at a progression, not all at once, I felt it made sense trading an early deed and a later one. As for trading a semi-non combat deed for a combat one, glancing through other archetypes, a lot of the deeds fit a similar category to what they replace, but not all of them (also as Wis is a more useful stat than Cha I hope that helps balance lost diversity).

But I see what you mean with targeted strike and front loading. How about this;

  • Bladed Flurry
    At 3rd level, a quickblade can...etc
    Replaces Menacing Swordplay and Bleeding Wound deeds
  • A little less versatility is lost and its not quite so strong at 1st level (Menacing swordplay isn't quite a combat deed but meh)

    Puna'chong wrote:
    ...the weapon having to be sheathed...Now, this is just me shooting off some ideas...

    Lighting Strike sounds good.

    Hmmm, one of the other deeds I swap in (called Iaijutsu, see first post) effectively gives quick draw and a way to feint at the start of a combat, so it is just a case getting that free action, but I may get rid of it as the 24 hour limit stops it being used repeatedly on the same guy.

    I'm not sure about adding in the 'loss of dex' requirement, as it runs the risk of making things overly complicated. From the player point of view it's another thing they have to be incorporate into their build( even if I do give some feats/deeds to help) and from a design point, If I go that route, then start adding in more options for feinting, thinking about that, the archetype begins to feel a little bloated to me.

    I think I may go and amalgamate all the changes and the design so far into a google doc, may be a little over kill but it avoids me having to say "See X post for detail on Y"


    grimdog73 wrote:
    how about quickblade for a name?

    Simple but captures the core concept, I like it.

    Puna'chong wrote:
    Flavor-wise

    I was trying to go for a regional neutral feel, tho my naming needs work in that regard.

    Puna'chong wrote:
    ...focus be on Katana/Longsword(?)

    What I have currently is you choose a single martial/exotic one-handed slashing weapon to be proficient in (on top of simple weapons), it's treated as piercing for class abilities and is the only weapon the finesse ability applies to. That way its limited to one weapon, but the player still has a bit of choice.

    Puna'chong wrote:
    ...Pummeling Style or Clustered Shots...Alternatively, if you want it to be a flurry of blows deal

    I would like to have both an iaijutsu/quick-draw strike and flurry abilities as I feel both are important parts of this style of fighting. Thanks for reminding me of Clustered Shots, it's helped me simplify the explanation of the strike deed. Here's the new version (kinda long but still shorter than the Dead Shot deed), please also have a look at the Bladed Flurry deed further up in my third post.

  • Quick Strike(Ex)[name not final]
    Spoiler:
    At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a sword saint may pool her attacks into a single strike. When you make a full-attack action (including bladed flurry) against a single target, you total the damage from all hits before applying the targets DR, hardness etc. Criticals are resolved normally.

    On each damage roll made as part of this special attack action, she gains double her sword saint level as additional precision damage(which isn't multiplied on a critical hit). To use this deed, her weapon must start the attack sheathed and her off-hand must be empty (with the exception of a buckler). This can only be used on the same target once every 24 hours.

    Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks or critical hits are immune to the extra precision damage. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat). This deed replaces precise strike.

  • Puna'chong wrote:
    I think a single perfect strike...Maybe lean towards a ki pool type deeds selection

    The change to make the strike deed so it functions similar to the Pummeling/Clustered feats, focused on a single target, was so that thematically you can consider it as a single powerful attack or as a full-attack at lightning speeds, allowing for people's preference. Mimicking the sword saint samurai's handful of d6's seemed too much for a deed, and this way means the flurry can work double duty which I like.

    As for giving a ki feel to the pool and deeds, thats one of the reasons I have panache using Wis. And I feel that as the concept is "light armored master of a single weapon type" most of the existing deeds and class features work well toward that end as is, tho I have ideas to replace one or two more with something like Deflect arrows as the duelist ability.


    Yeah, I was using the sword saint name as a place holder name. Thanks, I hadn't thought to check more 3rd party material for ideas, I'll look into that.

    I do like daring hero, but it's just not quite what I'm going for.


    bump

    So close to having this feel balanced. Any amount of input is appreciated.


    More good feedback. I get what you meant about the daring champion now. Ok so I'll basically just make this archetype a rework & extension of EmG's Ronin and swap charmed life for the same modified version of the samurai's resolve ability. For completeness I will copy/paste that abilities description below.

  • Resolve(Ex)
    Spoiler:

    Starting at 2nd level, the ronin gains the samurai resolve class feature. She can use resolve once per day at 2nd level, plus one additional time per day for every four swashbuckler levels beyond 2nd. Instead of regaining uses of resolve by defeating the target of a challenge, the ronin can spend 2 panache points as a free action in order to regain one use of resolve, up to her maximum number of uses per day. If the ronin gains resolve from another class, the daily uses of this ability stack and the ronin may regain uses of resolve as detailed by both classes. This ability replaces charmed life.
  • For making flurry a deed, how about this:

  • Bladed Flurry(Ex)
    At first level as a full-attack action, a sword saint can spend one panache point to attack as if she had the Two-weapon Fighting feat. She must use her favored weapon for all the attacks, but does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability. At 8th level she gains use of the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using bladed flurry. And at 15th level she gains use of the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using bladed flurry. She can use this ability in conjunction with the iaijutsu strike deed. This deed replaces derring-do and targeted strike.
  • If swapping out those two deeds isn't enough then could also trade out dizzying defense, however since the whirling dervish trades two deeds for what amounts to a better form of spring attack, which takes 3 feats (admittedly 2 of those are considered bad feats by many), so I think it balances.

    LoneKnave wrote:
    "must be done after unsheating" restriction...nerf the weapon finesse down to only work with the chosen weapon

    I've got both those restrictions already already so thats ok. Pummeling style requires a BAB of +6, so not sure how that should effect this. But heres a go at an adjusted version of iaijutsu strike.

  • Iaijutsu Strike(Ex)
    Spoiler:

    At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a sword saint may pool her attacks into a single strike. Make a number of attack rolls equal to the number of attacks she can make with a full-attack or Bladed flurry(your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous rolls (if any). If a critical is threatened it only applies to that single attack roll and a confirmation roll must be made for any threats individually.

    On each damage roll made as part of this special attack action, she gains double her sword saint level as additional precision damage(which isn't multiplied on a critical hit). To use this deed, her weapon must start the attack sheathed and her off-hand must be empty (with the exception of a buckler). This can only be used on the same target once every 24 hours.

    Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks or critical hits is immune to the extra damage from iaijutsu strike. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat). This deed replaces precise strike.

  • That is one looong deed description. Hopefully this is what you were thinking of. With this deed tho I'm concerned about how it effects the usefulness of perfect thrust. DR becomes a lot less of a hassle when you can pool damage like this, perfect thrust lets you attack against touch AC but still is that enough when it's a full-round action to make that single attack? Could have Iaijutsu strike replace precision strike and perfect thrust, but add extra progression later at where you can use iaijutsu strike at the end of a charge and/or spend points to use it that way. Hmmm.

    LoneKnave wrote:
    I think all simple weapons+ 1 one handed slashing weapon or rapier/sword cane sounds about right

    Ye I went and double checked and the kensai magus has pretty much that same thing, so there is a precedent for it. So I'll have the proficiency as follows:

  • Weapon and Armor Proficiency(Ex)
    A sword saint is proficient in simple weapons and in a single martial or exotic one handed melee weapon (including light weapons) of their choice. Her armor and shield proficiency is unchanged.

  • First thanks for the feedback.

    LoneKnave wrote:
    it is an incredibly huge up-trade.

    Agreed, just after I posted I decided I should have gone with the second idea (making it a deed and trading it in to replace two or maybe even three others). What do you think of that idea by the way?

    LoneKnave wrote:
    thematic disconnect...deadshot deed+pummeling charge

    A good point. I went that way because in some works while you see a single swing then the object/person is cut into many pieces, implying many cuts. Also having it only apply to a single attack would be too weak in comparison to normal precise strike. Making it function as dead shot/pummeling style is a good solution, tho what would be the best way to implement it?

    Deadshot is a 7th level dead, precise strike is 3rd. Dead shot only multiplies weapon damage, not modifiers, again making probably it weaker than precise strike. But if you change it so it works as pummeling style (i.e. it is exactly the same as a full-attack with damage modifiers applied per attack) then thats a considerable strength increase and should probably have a higher level than 7.

    LoneKnave wrote:
    the number on your iaijutsu is actually the same as a daring champion on his challenge target

    Thanks for the reassurance. Are you are referring to the I.strike's damage? In which case challenge does extra damage equal to class level, not level x2 as my strike does, maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

    LoneKnave wrote:
    you should edit the weapon profs as well (since this version doesn't even get katana prof).

    I did consider making the profs be 'all simple weapons and a single martial or exotic weapon of your choice' but I wasn't sure if that would be a bit much, then again the point is you've specialized at the cost of a lot else. Could also maybe make it simple weapons + a select list of blades (rapier, dueling sword, etc) but it feels a bit like curtailing people's choices to fit in line with my vision of the theme.


    Ok so there's a tone of other examples of ideas for this kind of class on here, often using the samurai as a base or a whole new class. But I finished this before I remembered there was a homebrew section on here, so I thought I might as well add my thoughts and preferences to the pile and hopefully get feedback to make sure it's not horrendously broken.

    What I've done is mostly just take existing mechanics from elsewhere and swap them in, in a way I hope is balanced. Also I'm aware of Everyman Gaming's Ronin archetype, but it doesn't quite scratch the itch for me, tho I have swiped two things from it which I will point out below.

    So for me the key aspects of the way these types of characters fight (tho there is variation and what I focus on may not be to your taste), translates mechanical to a focus on; bonuses for being lightly armored, bonuses to initiative, making multiple quick attacks and of course an iaijutsu style attack.

    So what I have at the moment is below, assume anything I don't mention is the same as a standard swashbuckler.

    Archetype - Sword Saint [name not final]

  • Panache(Ex)
    A sword saint uses strength of will/spirit instead of her force of there personality to achieve her goals. Instead of using her Charisma to determine the amount of panache she gains at the start of each day, she uses Wisdom. This ability works in all other ways like the Swashbuckler’s Panache class feature.

    This change isn't totally necessary but I like it. It's partly for fluff as these types of characters often are portrayed as having a very strong will and/or spirit (tho many do also have a strong personality) and partly it's a left over from when I considered trading nimble and light armour for the monks 'AC Bonus' ability.

  • Deeds(Ex)
    Any deed that would use a sword saint's charisma instead uses her wisdom.
    A sword saint gains the following deeds, each of which replaces an existing deed.
    Spoiler:
    • Iaijutsu(Ex)
      At 3rd level, while the sword saint has at least 1 panache point, she can draw a weapon as a free action and she is treated as having the Quick Draw feat for the purpose of determining if she can draw a weapon with the swashbuckler's initiative deed. Additionally, if the sword saint draws a weapon on the first turn of combat and attacks a foe within her reach, she can spend 1 panache point as a swift action to make a feint attempt against the target of her attack. This deed replaces kip-up. As the EmG Ronin deed named 'Derring-Do' on pfsrd, name changed for flavor.

    • Iaijutsu Strike(Ex)
      At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a sword saint gains the ability to add double her sword saint level to the damage on all attacks made against a single target till the end of her turn. To use this deed, at the start of the turn her weapon must be sheathed (or stowed in a similar fashion) and her off-hand must be empty (with the exception of a buckler). This can only be used on the same target once every 24 hours. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks or has any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits is immune to the extra damage from iaijutsu strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat). This deed replaces precise strike.

      Basicaly the same as precise strike but gets more damage at no cost in return for greater restrictions. Not sure if it's too much or too little tho.

    • Iaijutsu Focus(Ex)
      At 15th level, while the sword saint has at least 1 panache point, she may always act and may draw her weapon as a swift action during a surprise round, though she is considered flat-footed until he acts. During a surprise round or when attacking a flat-footed opponent, she adds his Wisdom modifier on damage rolls(minimum 0). This deed replaces swashbuckler's edge.

      Essentially the Kensai Magus ability of the same name. I'm concerned if keeping the added damage in is too much but the rest is fair I think.

    • Iaijutsu Master(Ex)
      At 19th level, when a sword saint rolls for initiative, she can spend 2 panache points to treat the roll as a natural 20. This deed replaces stunning stab.
    • Given the point cost and how late it's given I think it's ok.

  • Favored Weapon(Ex)
    As the EmG Ronin class feature of the same name, have copy-pasted to the spoiler below for people's convenience.
    Spoiler:
    At 1st level, the ronin gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with a single one-handed melee weapon of her choice. Treat the chosen weapon as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or duelist's precise strike). This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites. If she has a feat or ability that allows her to use her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength on damage rolls with her favored weapon, she doesn’t add 1-1/2 times her Dexterity modifier to her damage roll while wielding it in two hands.
    At 5th level, the ronin gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using her chosen weapon. When a ronin wields her favored weapon, she gains the benefits of the Improved Critical feat with that weapon. Every 4 levels thereafter, the bonus on attack and damage rolls increases by 1.

    This ability replaces swashbuckler's finesse and swashbuckler weapon training.

    Now the change I'm most concerned about.

  • Blade Flurry(Ex)
    A sword saint is so fast she can nearly double the number of attacks she can make. As brawler's flurry but can only be performed with the sword saint's favored weapon. So a sword saint who favors a longsword, need only hold one in order to perform a flurry attack.
    This replaces charmed life 1 to 5.

    My concern with this is I'm not sure how to value charmed life. Flurry gives you the base TWF feats perquisite free, plus a bit more versatility in how you use them, but only with use of a single weapon. Charmed life gives an immediate bonus on a single saving throw, with a limited number of uses per day. So flurry sounds way better, but saves can mean the difference between life and death were as the extra attacks are at a penalty (albeit a small one). A possible alternative option could be to have the flurry as a 1 point cost deed, that replaces two others (such as swashbuckler's grace and targeted strike?). And then probably borrow from Ronin again and swap charmed life for the Resolve feature.

  • Favored Weapon Mastery(Ex)
    As the inspired blades rapier weapon mastery except it only applies to the sword saints favored weapon.
  • So thats it. Many thanks for any advice you give.


    tzizimine wrote:
    You are correct that marks would be lost. Hence the title of RENEGADE Mastermaker. House Cannith shuns those that follow this prestige class because it costs the continuation of the bloodline.

    Good point, I never really thought about the meaning of the name that much, think because it's one of the clunkier PrC names. Thanks again.


    Gah, just missed the edit timer cut off. It seems as soon as you answer one thing something else pops into my head, I'll try and make it quick.

    The capstone is fair and balanced mechanically, but as a by product the loss of all dragonmark feats due to the initial racial requirment, replacement feats are given, so from the player perspective they can just decided to take that last level or not.

    Thematically tho it both does and doesn't make sense. I'm just curious as to your thoughts, and those of anyone else on here for that matter, on it as the Marks, Houses and prophecy are big parts of the Eberron setting.


    All that sounds great. Crafting an implant in that way makes sense and seems fair, as does having to consider what constructs that fit the requirements are available in the play setting.
    Being able to divide the bonus between limbs is a good option to have with out it being OP. And your additions on top of the race change for the capstone sounds like a good way to make it flexible without giving the player too much, good call.

    Thanks for your help and continued work on this great resource.


    tzizimine wrote:
    But the creation of Mighty Arms requires Craft Implants (Constructs) which has a talismanic cost of harvesting the body part. So, yes, that part is still there, harvesting and 25% price.

    Thanks for the quick response and for considering my questions, tho theres a bit I'm still unsure on.

    In regards to the implant question, I know needing a donor is true for almost all cases, but I'm confused by the text in the Cost section of the implants page.
    "Cost

    [Explains how normal cost is derived and the donor requirement]. The only exception is certain undead, deathless and construct implants. Assuming the donor material is appropriate, these types of implants can be made with both the appropriate Craft Implant feat and either the appropriate spells and, in the case of construct implants, the Craft Construct feat. The construction cost for implants made in this fashion is the normal half of the base price because the donor material [is] new and not 'seasoned' with experiences. The creator does not have [to] spend the money to create an entire new creature, but does have to pay for any material components that would normally be used in the effects to create the creature. All of the construction costs listed are assumed that the effort was made to track down and capture a donor, not create one from scratch."

    To me this sounds as if paying 50% of the base cost plus spell material components allows the crafting of implants without the capture & harvesting process. Maybe also in the case of a construct implant, the body material cost of the construct who's legs or w/e is being made is also needed (e.g. Clockwork Soldier - 1000gp's worth of clockwork pieces), as the text just says 'material components' without specifying spells but I'm really not sure on that.

    If I am wrong and you have to go whole hog and harvest from an existing construct or go and build the whole construct to then harvest from, then ok, but in that case this text could do with amending for clarity.


    As many have said I'm very thankful of all your work, so much fun and interesting stuff in Eberron.

    I do have a critique/question though. The Renegade Mastermaker was one of my favorite things from Eberron and I think your use of the implants rules from the Tech Guide is great for allowing people to choose what tech the put in themselves. However the capstone ability seems a bit weaker and/or restrictive than the original. Comparing it to the original you loose both your racial traits and a free warforged feat and instead gain the warforged racial traits instead. Which if I'm reading it all right amounts to just 'Construct Mind' and Natural Plating once you discount what they gain from the living construct type.

    It's possible the original way was to strong, I'm just not to good at judging that sort of thing. It's just after I saw the art done for that PrC, I just enjoyed the balance of sitting more in the area of 'cyborg of the original race' rather than a warforged with a curious shape and left over fleshy bits.

    EDIT: Ah forget to ask about some things. If a character takes the "mighty arm" implant twice I assume the "Improved Battle Fist" feature of RMm only applies to one of them (chosen when you gain the ability, if you have two at that point). If so it might be worth clarifying that to prevent shenanigans.

    Also I'm unclear on if making an implant from scratch (paying 50% its cost instead of 25%) means that you don't have to go and cut bits out of someone else. I know its kind of a stupid question but the way it's worded in the implants section was a little fuzzy on that point.


    Ah a part of my craft question I forgot about (and as I currently can't find the edit button, I will simply make a new post). So my question is actually do you need the spell AND the UMD check to meet a spell requirement for item crafting. Or do you just need one of them, in the same way the original 3.5 artificer worked.


    I realise thread necromancy on something over 2 years dead is pushing it, but I have a fondness for "Craft all the things!" type classes. So I really wanted to get clarification on some stuff in order to use your class the way it was intended.

    So I came across this while searching for Twin Agate Dragons PDF version of it. Is it the final version of the class, as there are a few differences between it and the google doc? And if so I'd be curious as to why you swapped round the levels you get skill mastery and the Extra charge ability.

    My next next question is a little long. As I read it, in order to simulate a spell for crafting an item you have to 1) have that spell in your book, with its CL being Dependant on where it was learnt and 2) must make a UMD check (20 + CL the spell). You do this for each spell the item requires and if you succeed at all of them the craft DC is as if you met all the spell requirements. A failed check means you adjust the DC (or are unable proceed)as per the normal crafting rules. And according to the scribd PDF (the google doc is not clear on this bit) you need to do this even for spells learnt from the Ardwright list (though you get a +2 on UMD checks involving those spells).

    Phew ok, so is all that correct?


    While it doesn't state the levels stack in the tumor familiar description, having two familiars seems a little too powerful (from a utility stand point at least) than having it stack, so I'd go with that.


    Apologizes in advance if I've missed something obvious.

    Was looking at the Hell Knight Signifer as I may be building one soon and I realized that I didn't fully understand how the mask works as a bonded item.
    So the Signifer PrC states "This ritual converts the enforcer's mask into his new bonded item, which takes up the head slot. In this case, Hell Knight enforcer levels stack with levels from the class that grants the bonded item for determining what additional magical abilities can be added to the bonded item."

    My confusion comes from the fact there is no 'head' bonded item category. Now since which category it's in determines what properties you can give it, it's something I'd like to know before i start coming up with a build.


    I hadn't thought of that, the numbers are probably going to be better and it doesn't interfere with any of the build options much. I'll keep that in mind.

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