Zoukiji's page

I have DMed a lot and am currently a PC in a campaign, playing as a wizard, wanting to prestige class into Diabolist (Yes :) An evil campaign) And I found that if arcane schools only unlock with wizard levels, why would anyone try to prestige class before the 8th level. I understood the rules as already mentioned but I could see the inclarity too. I personally think that if you need to take 3 levels beyond the 5th just to get that ability and then prestige class, it makes prestige classing for wizards just that more less viable.

I'm not trying to power game, just trying to look at it from a balance perspective, and the way it is written is really unclear. It's just a shame that prestige classes are so difficult to settle into imho. Oh well, guess I'll have to wait 3 long levels or just dip 1 level into the prestige class and back to wizard. It all just seems like it is counter intuitive.

I see valid points all across, but I do not see the wording being the same in the example of a wizard's bonus feats, since 1, they are clearly labelled across the wizard's level table on specific levels and 2, the wording is "At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, >a wizard< gains a bonus feat"

I still see the overall ability to be a level one ability, unlocking at 8th level seperately for one of the powers, although I do realize that the wording doesn't specify that there is talk of an exception of the rule in this case. I think the wording is pretty spot on with most classes in this regard, clearly specifying the class which is required for the ability.

All in all, I think that this issue should be better clarified, as any situation like this, where definition is a problem, hurts the game.

As for if it's unbalanced and there's a chance that people would dip into all classes with 1 level, I do not think that would be very wise, as it comes with a lot of multiclassing penalties

Also, can you imagine how absurd multiclassing was if abilities that said 'level' meant character level? Everyone would dip into classes just far enough to get these scaling abilities.

A fair point, but I did take this into consideration if you read my initial post. The 8th level arcane school power may not need you to be 8th level wizard, but the power still relies on your wizard level to determine its potential. This I believe is a good way of balancing things. Additionally, there are other things which make multiclassing a bad idea which most people know about. Such as missing favored class benefits and total attack progression and so forth.

This is why I am actually bringing this up. I understand it as I read it and I don't think it's imbalanced. I would like to hear some more thoughts about this issue though

Because reasons:

Quote:

Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character's level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.

Not to nitpick, but I read "most of which" in that quote, which technically makes my statement valid, as it doesn't state the requirement of actual Wizard levels and the fact that it is unlocked at 1st level

Zoukiji wrote:

Stuff

Whenever it says 'level' in a class description it means class level.

Why is that exactly?

I have been looking all over to find out what the thoughts of arcane school power progression is like with prestige classes and although this place seems to be a little old I find it appropriate for the following.

It is my understanding that as long as someone has 1 level of wizard, they will gain their respectable arcane school powers when they arrive at the necessary level requirement to unlock them. Whether it be with wizard levels, multiclass levels or prestige class levels.

The reason why I am stating this, is that under every school power, the requisite for unlocking the 8th level powers all state that "At 8th level, you can use this ability..", meaning that it doesn't require you to be an 8th level wizard, like for example with bonus feats, where the text reads: "At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a wizard gains a bonus feat". Arcane school is an ability which is given to the wizard and thereby unlocked at 1st level. Though, almost every 8th level arcane school power effectively uses the character's level of wizard to determine how powerful the power will be. This I consider as a balancing tool. Take for example the conjuration school's dimensional step power at 8th level. It goes as follows:

"At 8th level, you can use this ability to teleport up to 30 feet per wizard level per day as a standard action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each additional creature brought with you."

Thus, if someone were to only take 1 level of wizard, this ability would be considerable nerfed, as the 1st level power of the conjuration school's teleportation alternative, known as Shift is almost as good and available at 1st level.

Summing up:
Arcane school is an ability at 1st level
Arcane school powers do not mention required wizard levels to attain them, but instead just levels, i.e. Character Level.
This is balanced due to 8th level powers being "powered" by wizard levels only.

What are your thoughts on this, people?

- Zoukiji