Zoran's page

Pages have moved to:

http://paulmurraycbr.github.io/ageofworms/index.html

Good times.

Cheapy wrote:

Tels wrote:

He did mention they were going to play it 'as written' instead of houseruling some of the issues.

And they then gave the PCs full HP each level...they already passed over the point of 'running as written' :)

That's a houserule that applies to everyone, where as changing the slipup is a houserule that applies to the Swashbuckler. He mentioned they were going to playtest the Swash as it was written in the packet, one houserule that changes the HP of everyone is different than houseruling changes to the playtest packet.

Hi folks,

This is the stat block I played this time, after the revised beta came out:

I used Charisma as the pre req for Combat Expertise which let me reduce Strength.. Sorry I don't remember the rolls but they were pretty low. I used action points for the haunted bits and draughts of anti plague for the ghoul fever, knowing I needed all the help I could get. From then on I let the Paladin poke all the haunted bits.

On the full HP, that's the whole party and a lot of the monsters - DM's call. I don't think it has affected any of the mechanics of what we are testing with the Swashbuckler abilities, as I haven't been whittled down to dead yet. It's an existing campaign in which I am testing, rather than isolated encounter testing.

On the 'slip-up' of the feats leading on from Combat Expertise, I think they made a mistake and should fix it. It's academic to me so far, as I haven't got another feat to spend yet.

After levelling up to 5th, this week's adventure had my character dying of ghoul fever from failing fort saves last time...

I used Charmed Life to bolster some saves, and was eventually cured.

I switched Con and Int as suggested, which helped a bit with fort saves.

However this week's adventure had us going through a haunted house, with a stack of will and fort saves for the unsuspecting brave adventurer.

I failed a will save despite using Charmed Life, and a fort save was triggered that same round as a result, meaning I couldn't used Charmed Life again. Needless to say the result was nasty when I failed that too - reduced to -1 HP and dying straight away - thankfully the party saved me.

The worst issue though is the same problem every swashbuckler has to face, saving throws. Let's look at a ghoul. They're CR1, so you can expect to find them quite early, and with the playtest I ran a swashbuckler through, they were swarming all over at level 5. Let's fight one with this character at level 1 first-

You can probably go first, probably hit it. A max damage crit from you isn't enough to kill it, it's definitely getting some attacks in against you. It gets three attacks once its in full attack range (dodging panache may let you avoid 2 of those on certain rounds). You can parry the whole string if you're coming in with full panache. They hit on a 14, your parry attempt is a +6 to their +3 so that comes out to what? Around a 15% chance of getting a hit in, roughly? The ghoul gets 3 attempts at it per round, you need a few rounds to take it down if the rest of the party is occupied, odds are pretty good you're going to take a hit or two this fight.

Take one hit, you need a fort save. Two if it's from the bite and your GM doesn't wait on disease checks. If you riposted before this hit, you can't use charmed life on this. Same problem if it lands 2 hits in the same round, which isn't at all out of the question if you're the only one throwing damage on this thing, panache runs out quick with all this parrying. A DC13 fort save is a coinflip without charmed life, fail and you seriously out of commission. Paralysis is not a dex build's friend. Ghoul fever's pretty nasty with that con.

Alternatively, let's look at this at level 5. A few ghouls attack you, swarming whoever's out front as ghouls are wont to do. Your AC is better, your fort save is 2 higher because you bought a cloak, but +4 is the baseline for anyone else in your position at this level, before adding stats. Plus your parry attempts beat their attacks by 8 even if they're flanking, and do enough damage to potentially drop one in a single hit. That said, your parries are limited by your unchanged panache, you only get one riposte. My math says if four manage surround you and one dies on its first attempt to attack, you're still looking at 2 or 3 hits getting though, and a 60% shot at passing the saves. Pass on the riposte, you still only get charmed life (which only brings you to the save of a fighter with your con and cloak) on the first. Paralysis is looking likely. Throw a ghast in the mix and it's even worse. You're hit with a fort save as soon as you're in combat range, saves are up to 15, if it flanks it's back to hitting on a 14, and you need a crit to take it down in one go. This issue only gets more pronounced at higher levels where (sometimes) adding cha to fort saves is less and less of an effective bandaid.

This is exactly what happened in my play test!

Thanks for your comment, Thalin. I should have mentioned, our GM has given us max hit points so he can pummel us into oblivion. :)

I take your point about the stats, but without an Int of 13+ I won't be able to save up for the cool Improved Whatever feats that need Combat Expertise as a pre-req, like Improved Trip or Disarm.

I agree with you that I am in for a world of hurt! :)

Any other class designed to be at the front has a higher Fort save at this level. Swashbuckler has the same saves as a Rogue at his level, but plays a more exposed role (the way I'm playing anyway...).

Perhaps I could have eased off the Charisma, but for the kind of Derring-Do personality, it fits. I guess I could use a feat to get the Panache rather than a high CHR, but that seems counter to the spirit of the class.

I think Swashbucklers should be smarter than the average - also want to be good at all those fancy skills.

Hi All,

I'm playing a human (Varisian) Swashbuckler in Gallo's RotRL game. I rebuilt Zoran from a rogue when the beta came out - thanks also to Hero Lab for supporting it.

So my testing starts from level 4, and I have just gone up to level 5. Here's the stat block for level 4, on which this feedback is based. Also, this is my first post, so be kind!

Okay, so a kind a of Gypsy show-off was the aim, and I leapt at the chance to try him as a Swashbuckler. We've had three sessions since I converted him and although he's had his ups and downs, I'm having fun playing this class.

I should mention the party make-up: I'm joined on the front line by a Dwarven Paladin, and we have a Dwarven archer Ranger and two half-human spell-casters. We play what we like, so it's not necessarily the most optimised party.

Things I liked:

Panache is fun. We always want more of things we like, and this is no exception. I used Opportune Parry and Riposte against some (puny) human thugs. I felt more carefree with the Panache when the stakes were low. Luckily I rolled well, and those points were not wasted.

Delivering the killing blow restored one point of Panache (which we may start calling Mojo - it was late...).

Having Panache allowed the initiative bonus and helps with the Dodge AC, which was fun.

I think I used the swift Intimidate once, which is a nice bonus.

Thank heavens at least Precise Strike works against undead...

Things I disliked:

Naturally, I didn't want to go below one point of Panache, so I didn't want to spend more than two points in a battle (or day) unless it got refreshed.

I found that, due to the luck of the dice, early confirmed criticals in a battle could not be saved up until I had the opportunity to use the Swashbuckler deeds, as I was already at my maximum Panache.

And I didn't get the chance to use any Swashbuckling deeds against the ghouls that beset us over the last session, apart from Precise Strike.

Last night I learned the hard way that Swashbucklers have very bad fort saves. Got paralysed by a ghoul. Twice. When I was holding off three of them, they had 9 attacks per round in total - even Combat Expertise and fighting defensively let one hit through in the first round on a natural 20, and of course I failed the save most times. This was when I wished I could have used Opportune Parry in retrospect - but having to declare it before the die is rolled means you are just guessing when to use it, rather than it being of real defensive value.

The ghoul experience probably means I will have to take Great Fortitude feat at 5th level just to stay alive, when I'd rather be choosing something more fun like Improved Trip or Disarm.

Before I converted the character, I had Two Weapon Fighting, which I had to ditch. I think it's a shame one loses Precise Strike when holding a weapon in the off-hand, as that seems a Swashbuckling kind of thing to do.

I also realised that having Swashbuckler Finesse rather than a bonus Weapon Finesse feat takes away the Dex bonus to the Bladed Scarf, which is disappointing because the character is a Varisian Tattooed Gypsy guy. I just don't have enough feats to spend of Weapon Finesse again, considering that I got Combat Reflexes just to allow the main Parry/Riposte feature.

Overall:

Despite the focus here on what didn't quite feel right, the overall experience is going ok. Hopefully the character survives the middle levels on the low saves! We'd probably feel like implementing house rules to correct some of these things, but for the moment as a beta play test, we'll stick with what's on the page.