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Hi guys, I haven't quite gotten an answer on this one. Regarding menacing weapons, it gives a bonus +2 to flankers when the wielder is adjacent, flanking or not.

I'm currently in a module where there is a decent amount of undead, and they're immune to mind-affecting stuff like fears, and menacing seems like it would be a fear effect, but it could just be a 'magic effect' of the weapon. I'm not sure if my DM will give me the bonus to attacks or not.

What do you guys think?

Hey guys, I've been using improved spell sharing (the teamwork feat) for my druid and her animal companion. It's pretty great, splitting barkskin, resinous skin, strong jaw, stuff like that.

We are going to hit level 9 soon enough, and I wanted to know how sharing stoneskin works. The feat splits the duration, but stoneskin has both a duration, and a numeric value until discharged for the damage reduction.

If I'm level 10, and I split stoneskin with my wolf does it:

1. Apply stoneskin to both for 50 mins, for 50 points of DR 10/adamantine,

or

2. Apply stoneskin to both for 50 mins, for 100 points of DR/adamantine each?

For other spells it's essentially like casting the spell twice for half duration, so I'd think it's the second option. (kind of like how stoneskin communal has the duration split up between the creatures, but each one gets the full DR hit point value)

That's part of my thinking. Like why use a tail on a standard when you could bite? usually it's more damage.

Shieldlawrence mentioned that they expect you to do the math yourself, though that just seems strange for a creature like the marilith. It doesn't have any grapple feats, yet the CMB goes +24 (28 grapple) - when it would make more sense or simplify it to say +24 (+23 grab), or grapple with tail, since any other grapple they attempt would be +24 as they don't have grapple feats. (Though I can't find a ruling saying more arms means better grapple, usually +2 in 3.5?) yet it just says +28 grapple (the +4 from grab).

The wording of natural attacks does make sense for it to always apply, I'm just seeing some exceptions that aren't specifically stated (such as, some monsters I've seen specifically say their tail is a primary attack) so it kind of makes it a bit up in the air.

Thanks for your replies! I'm not sure how I feel about it now - I agreed with the judgement.

However - I was looking around at different creatures with natural attacks, and I found a couple monsters which could help: the Marilith, Grodair, and the giant whiptail centipede.

Now, normally the marilith wields 6 weapons and has grab on their tail slap. Their other option, if the weapons aren't present, is 6 slams (primary) and the tail slap (secondary). It takes the -5 on the tail slap, buuuut...

The grapple with the tail doesn't take a penalty. It's listed as +24 (+28 grapple), which makes for: 16 (base) + 1 (size) + 7 (strength), +4 (grab, tail ability).

Another monster, a giant whiptail centipede, takes the -5 penalty on the attack roll with their tail (since they have a bite) but don't show any signs of a change of roll on their trip with the tail.

Same thing with the grodair and their bite vs tentacle trip. It just seems as though since the trip isn't affected (despite it being a different attempt) they could make an individual trip on a standard attack.

Does the secondary penalty not apply to combat maneuver rolls? To be fair this grab is during a full attack, but would the same happen if you attempted to trip a foe with the tail? Does it change if they have the trip ability on the tail where they get the automatic attempt after?

I think it depends on the spell. For flaming sphere, it says it's a move action to move the sphere, but also specifically states that it moves 30 feet -per round-. So I think you can only move it once - though your GM can rule otherwise if they feel it makes sense.

Roaming pit on the other hand, only states the move action and nothing else, so I'd say that could be moved twice.

Part of it might be the spell level. Roaming pit is minimum 11th level to cast, so two movements wouldn't be game breaking. Rolling a fiery ball around 60 ft. of distance at 3rd level might make it a tad overpowered at that level.

Hey guys, I've done quite a bit of digging on natural attacks and while many questions of mine have been answered, one still lingers. Wondering if there's a legitimate rule on this specific thing before I go to my GM for a house ruling.

I'm playing a character With 2 claws and a tail slap. I know that on a full attack, the tail is secondary and takes a -5 penalty, while the claws are full BAB/primary.

My question is, if I move and then make a standard attack with the tail rather than claws or weapons, do I still take the -5 penalty if that's the only attack I can make that round?

Second, I guess this might be the same situation--but if an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity, and I choose to use the tail for the attack rather than a weapon or claw, do I take the -5 penalty to my attack? Is it treated as primary since it's the only attack I'm taking at that time?

Thanks for your help. I've read the rules which kind of dance around my situation a tad, since I couldn't find a monster with multiple attacks that favours a tail slap over a bite when they have the option of one or the other.

I think I might remove soul collector all together. I mean, having a way to replenish shadow points is cool, same with recharging spirit drain, but unnecessary and possibly OP. Making the powers use per day would just be like ki pools/points, so I might just follow that.

More spells per day would be a decent idea if it goes to 6th level spell lists. Same with the weapon training. I might keep the combat feats if I go that route though...may reduce the number.

Sure, you can play with it if you'd like. Let me know what adjustments you're interested in, I'd be glad to hear them. It does need more work than the rest. I'm attached to the concept of the jump, personally. Some of the aspects definitely need adjustment though.

Haha, I actually edited the avatar's spellcasting down to 6th level as you posted that. I felt the transform abilities were powerful enough that 9th level spells would just be way too OP.

I moreso made them the avatar, so that's the official name. However, I suppose a new class could be made for blue mage with the store ability concept. It's pretty cool, but difficult to utilize when you might be in a campaign where it's rare abilities are used, let alone on the specific character. It's a cool concept but I'm not sure how easy it would be to play.

Gambler is definitely NOT a class for the faint of heart or the new player. They could really complicate combat if they want to. I might try and lean more on singular buffs, and remove the 'mass' versions of the abilities.

I thought about using cards and dice as weapons...but I don't know how viable they would actually be. I mean, throwing dice may be fine in an FF fashion, but dice can't do damage in a RP scenario. I don't think? bladed playing cards could be a thing...but still. I might go simple with some martial.

Yeah, I figured people would be iffy on the ravager, since fury is very very comparable to rage, with a dash of sneak attackish stuff.

For red mage I'd say 6th levels are too low. Other classes that are at the 6th level spells have significant non-spell based concepts, such as bard's preformances, or a summoner's eidolon.

Would it be a better Idea to indeed go 9th or customize it to 7th or 8th, and but make doublecast only for spells 3 or 4 level slots above?

Red mages may get feats and be combat-able ish, they do not have enough power to make them viable with only 6th level spells, I think.

Yes, I have been considering making the damage taken static for shadow knight. That way it makes abilities like shadowguard shine. Frankly, at level 20 etc that ability is almost useless. As for the d12, It was indeed to offset the damage. And while you'd think the healing for the SK is decent, even at level 20 you can only use it 5 times in a day. I have been considering moving from weapon damage-based or health% based to static 1d6 and such. It's a tough thing to balance in actual combat that I'm going to work on soon.

I'm unsure if I want to remove the jump just yet. It was something I really wanted to include. I have to work on it, though. I also have to balance the aspects, such as crystal, as kestral stated. Switching aspects might be interesting. Making the effect minor rather than significant, and allowing switches...could be good.

Red mage is indeed OP. I'm looking at ways to change the class. 4th level spells is too low imo. 6th would be good. choosing per day would be good. I'll have to alter the other abilities, possibly.
I honestly forgot I left them with all martial. It was supposed to be a choice, one being rapier as you mentioned. :P

(I'm currently editing a little bit, actually.)

Prooooobably should have editing things more.

As for shadow knight, I did add the shadow point cost a little later, originally I had planned for them to have a number of uses per day separate from the shadow points.
I should probably change it to straight physical or a normal damage equivalent.
Dash and slash is a tad OP I think. Especially with the SP abilties later on. I probably need a negative post-use, like shaken for a round or something. Or a turn use restriction like some dragon breath abilities.

For blood knight, I had called a couple things by two names. Vampiric bite just means healing for double the )weapon) damage you do/melee touch attack.
Puppetmaster is a toughie, I just wanted to keep it to attacks so they don't find any special info about them. But, automatic ex's and su's would work.

Red mage I was attempting to balance via reduced DCs, but obvs becoming OP as hell at 20. I was considering reducing the spell level limit instead. I'll have to work on how clearly the abilities are written. As for doublecast, I can adjust it. Gotta figure out how to put it in without making it too overpowered.
Maximize/empower/etc means the specific spell is empowered, so you can't switch it to another one the next day or anything. Within that, this 'maximize' only works on one use of the spell in a day. I did that to limit people just using fireball or whatever and getting full damage all day every day.
I might have to reduce the max spell use to...summoner level equivalent, for example. And then moving the uses per day and spells known back up to normal, as well as DCs.
The two per round is indeed fairly overpowered...but then again I thought the reduced DCs would cover it, since, at least when I was using this against my players, Only 1/5 of their saves didn't pass.

Dragoon was a tough one for me. I wanted to incorporate both without overdoing either.
Totally forgot to add the uses per day. I was going to do the way some dragons have, which is once per some-odd rounds, and an obvious limit per day so they don't just sit there using it as much as possible. Then again, in a party they'd be hitting allies, too.
Specializing is an interesting idea. I'll have to figure out how to do that.
I suppose I made the jumping a less-major part of the class. We'll have to see how I handle it.

For gladiator, I was considering removing whirlwind all together. It's kind of a random ability that shows up and doesn't belong.

For ravager, I added the analyze ability later on. I'd either have to 1: make it more useful, or 2: remove it. considering the second.

For avatar, yes that was the most troubled class I made. :P I had begun calling it blue mage and, well, didn't change the names back. (oops)
I should just call the vermin form vermin. they're present in desert-type areas, at least, some. I might make it a different ability.
I really have to work on the armor-weapon thing. I might just remove al bonuses and offset it with higher natural armor as they level up.
For ooze I was attempting to make them more of an endurance form, while dealing a small amount of damage, ability wise, potentially.
Yeah I didn't think about the flare thing. It's kind of like the flare spell in other games, while used by an elemental caster, it's non-elemental to overcome resistance. I Suppose I could just say it covers all three for the purposes of DR, but avoids absorb and immune...or something. Or I could just give it a new ability entirely.
Fear cone is in the universal monster rules, they all are (for the creature abilities) It's under "fear", an alteration of fear aura.
The immunity is selected upon taking it at the level, and then is only active when in those forms.

Haha yeah for gambler, cash in does have to go. People get offended when DMs don't allow things.
I forgot about the cards thing. My players use them (obviously) but I need to work around it to make it the equivalent of a critical miss, because just a miss isn't enough of a negative to offset the positive pass effect.

Thanks for your comments! I'll implement them as soon as I can. I knew I had things to fix, it's sometimes hard to edit your own work. :P

I think I fixed it. I tested it and it didn't work so I've been trying to get it working :P.

I made it a google doc for people to view. Let me know what you think!

They need to be adjusted, some might be OP. Such as the avatar's level 20 ability. :P Enjoy!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kHHWyGDLjECuSMWDrJX68QFeFoGRZlqUPm3-WCt 9RWM/edit?usp=sharing

Summary:
Shadow knight (uses own health for abiltiies, shadow power to enhance them)

Blood knight (Focuses on healing oneself and allies and debilitating enemies)

Dragoon (jumps, dragon abilities and breath weapons based on chosen dragon aspect)

Red Mage (Reduced spell power, wiz/cleric spells, doublecast)

Avatar (kinda like blue mage) Transforms into humanoid versions various subtypes (aberration, undead, demon, etc etc)

Gladiator (fighting styles rather than weapon training, performance abilities such as shouts)

Ravager (agile, deals bleed when flanking, fury, which is comparable to rage but different powers and stat types)

Gambler (focus on crits, gambler talents dealing with d%s)