Zarnof's page

Well, because it's a small race, I was looking for something to downplay that for damage. Shuriken seems like a good way to go for a sneak attack delivery system, although I'm not entirely sure how to build a character that takes advantage of them to their fullest, beyond knowing ninjas can take a talent to throw 2 extra shurikens.

I also don't know any tricks to reliably get sneak attack damage with a ranged weapon, except for going first in a round when everything is flat footed (and that is a very unreliable way to count on sneak attack damage). It seems like to be viable, you need a way to flank from ranged, or always deny people their dex bonus when you attack them from ranged, and I'm not sure how to do either one of those things.

Are you looking to focus on unarmed strikes, or a monk weapon like shuriken?

Just a few general ideas stemming from what you guys have seen be effective with this concept, and tailored to the race. Doesn't need to be an extensive, step-by-step build of stats, every single feat, and magic weapons through 20 or anything... =)

I have an upcoming game, and I wanted to play a stealthy, assassin-like character. The GM knows I wanted to do this, and apparently has some major plot points involving svifneblin for the game, and asked if I wouldn't mind playing one. I always kind of enjoyed the idea of playing the weird, underground gnomes, so I said I would... particularly as it seems to fit the basic archetype I originally wanted to play.

As I originally envisioned it, the type of "stealth, assassin-like" I had in mind was akin to a ninja, or a monk/ninja. However, I know Pathfinder very much encourages sticking to one class, so I'm pretty worried about multiclassing as a monk/ninja. I have to play this thing up from level 1, and on a slow progression exp scale to boot, and so designing him at 15th or 20th level is great in theory, but if the early levels it's a slog and I'm an anchor on the neck of the party, it's no fun for anyone. I would make a pretty bad just straight ninja, as my ki pool would be terrible with the -4 penalty to Cha svirfneblin take.

So my question to you guys is: can you take this and show me some cool, effective builds that might be a possibility? I'm pretty open... a rogue that does this effectively? Or a straight monk that's actually very effective? Or a monk/ninja that actually works very well, and it doesn't matter that I might have to wait until level 14 to take the invisible blade trick? Or maybe a cleric or wizard or magus or something else creative? Like I said, I'm open to any build that is effective... and ideally makes good use of the inherent strengths of the svirfneblin - ie, good dex and wis, hard to hit with magic, very good at being mundanely and magically hidden. All of that stuff says to me "stealthy assassin" character, but maybe there's a better road to take?

Thanks for the help!

I would say what I most want him to do is battlefield control, along with respectable damage. The way I mostly envision battlefield control is currently by utilizing his long reach (as he is frequently Huge sized, thanks to the Alchemist, and more so when he gets LM) to the fullest advantage with AoOs, and by tripping things proficiently. He already seems to do respectable damage with the huge sized weapon and good crits (and we have a wand of lead blades the alchemist can use to make the weapon function as the size category above huge for 10 rounds a pop), but there are always innumerable ways to up that. I didn't go with a reach weapon because his reach is already impressive, and while a reach weapon would increase it to ridiculous lengths, it would also mean I can't attack things that inevitably get adjacent to me.

His alignment is neutral good.

I agree that power attack is definitely something I want at some point, just not sure when.

I have a lot of old 3rd edition books, yes indeed, although I think my GM would be reluctant to port any over. Other than his own house rules and races, he tends to try to stick as close to core Pathfinder as he can, though he is good about listening to a case for 3rd party Pathfinder products. I think he would probably be less willing to look at a 3.5 supplement and import a class or feat or ability that hasn't already been "officially" ported in some capacity.

The spell-less ranger is a ranged ranger all the way, composite bow. Inquisitor is melee, with a strong emphasis on defense. The alchemist handles traps for the party.

Zarnof wrote:

Why don't you fully post your PC? You are a barb2/Ftr1 with combat reflexes a 13INT and 12DEX. You can pick up Iron will (and skills) to pick up LM. I'm also guessing that your DM is allowing you, as a monstrous humanoid, to enlarge via the LM ability... is he allowing you to do so otherwise? (Or has he made you humanoid?) Do you have all the abilities/etc of a minotaur?

OK, good idea... thanks for the suggestion.

First of all, the race Minotaur he created doesn't have a lot of the standard things a true Minotaur gets. They do count as a humanoid race, not a monstrous one. They are large, have +4 str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha. They have +4 Intimidate and Survival, Darkvision 60, +3 nat armor, Prejudice (which gives them a further -2 on many social roles, and often makes items cost more), and loses feats at 1st and 3rd level. That's it, nothing more.

As for my current build:

Traits: +2 init (Exile), +1 Will save

1st Fighter/2 Barbarian (Invuln Rager variant, took the variant before the LM was suggested for me, back when I was planning to mostly just go straight barb)

Str: 19
Dex: 12
Con: 16
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 8

Feat (Fighter 1): Combat Reflexes
Rage Power (Barb 2): Quick Reflexes (+1 AoO while raging)

Currently fights with a Large +1 Keen Nodachi (+7, 2d8+7, 15-20x2, S or P)
Wearing Large MWK Full plate

Thanks very much for the advice, all. You've all certainly shown me several feats and directions I was unaware of, and I'll think about good or possible ways to incorporate them. I actually hadn't seen Combat Patrol, which is pretty awesome, and the Intimidation line of feats and rogue abilities are pretty impressive as well.

I think perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could have been when I was describing to Minotaur race as in in the game, and thus one of the problems with a build. As a trade-off for allowing a large race from the outset, I do not get a feat at 1st or 3rd level as other characters do. This isn't a complaint or anything from me, it's just it makes feats very, very precious and my build a little trickier. ESPECIALLY at low levels, where so far at 3rd level the only feat I have is the one I obtained from a level in fighter.

So for example, James, while that is a very impressive build, it wouldn't work for me for a couple of reasons. Perhaps the biggest reason is I already am 3rd level, my traits are already chosen, my 3 levels are already picked, and I couldn't switch over to the Lorewarden if I wanted to, since my GM (generously) gave me large MW platemail at the end of last adventure... I have already worn and used it, and the only way I can wear it is with the fighter heavy armor feat, which lorewarden doesn't get. Also, your build has me taking feats at 1st and 3rd level, which is out. None of this is to say I don't appreciate it, though... as I said, the basic premise shows me many avenues I can approach in the future.

I'll also say that one of the reasons LM works from a RP perspective (and there are actually a few) is the immortality ability at the end, which has no particular mechanical benefit but dovetails well with plot points and character history both. That said, looking over some comments, perhaps I won't go all the way in LM. We'll see.

This is my first post, as I have just started playing Pathfinder (though I am a 3.5 vet). So first of all, hi, Pathfinder community!

I have some questions for you all regarding a direction I would like to go with a character build. However, in order for you all to be armed with the necessary information to make informed decisions, I need to share some of my GM's house rules. I'll try to be brief and to the point, since people droning on about their personal characters and homebrew settings can be a little... uninteresting... for those not involved.

My GM went to a lot of trouble designing all sorts of non-standard races for the setting. This includes things as "vanilla" as goblinoids like goblins and bugbears, then moves to more exotic still like kalashatar, dhamphir, and tengu. There's an extensive selection, and while he was perfectly fine with us taking the standard Pathfinder races, he enjoyed the idea of us being a monster squad as well. Many of the more exotic races appealed to us, and so that's what we did. He also wanted to make 2 large races playable without ECLs - Minotaur and Ogre - and he tinkered with them, giving them toned down stats and abilities and taking away the feats they would normally get at 1st and 3rd level. He quite wanted someone to play one of the large races, so I took the hook, and am playing a Minotaur. (I'm sure it will raise quite a few eyebrows that a large race is being allowed at all, but whether or not it is a "good" decision on his part isn't entirely the thrust of my upcoming questions... just don't want this thread to turn into a hotbed of, "Seriously? A playable large PC from 1st level?!?!")

OK, so now the most unusual thing adjustment is out of the way, and the foundation of my character is laid... a large character who is particularly feat-starved. Another house rule he has is essentially death spiral... when you are at 75% hit points, you take a -1 to everything (to hit, saves, AC, skill checks, etc.). At 50%, you take a -2 to everything. At 75%, you take a -4. The only two classes that have ways around this are monk and barbarian. As monks level, they ignore increasing amounts of the wound penalties (presumably as a way to further entice people to want to play a monk). Barbarians ignore them totally while they rage.

In terms of other party members, we have a spellless ranger, an alchemist, and an inquistor, so we have a marked lack of magical artillery and in-combat healing.

I think those are the only house rules that bear particular relevance to my questions and the mechanics of my build. We have had a number of sessions so far, which have been fun, and we became 3rd level. 4th level is around the corner. Since my character is large and reasonably intelligent (13 int) and reasonably nimble (12 dex), I wanted to take advantage of that combination and make a proficient attack of opportunity attacker, and trip monkey. As such, I have taken 1 level of fighter (and chose Combat Reflexes as my bonus feat). I have chosen 2 levels of barbarian, and I chose the extra AoO while raging as my barb power. Beyond the stat increase, the rage is nice to ignore the inevitable wound penalties as the fight continues.

Looking ahead to the future, the way I envision my character can go one of two ways. The first and most simple is to mostly just pile on continued barbarian levels. The second option, and the one that is probably more appealing to both me and the GM, is to start taking Living Monolith levels at 6th level. (I should note it will be possible at this level because the GM is waiving the Endurance feat requirement, albeit at the cost of the "Summon Sphinx" ability at 7th level of the class). The reason it is appealing is more from roleplaying and background reasons than mechanical ones, as just concentrating on barbarian will probably yield a more effective character in both the short and long term (the GM envisions this campaign as going to 20th).

OK, now that that rather extensive but necessary background has been laid, I'll ask my questions:

1. Is Living Monolith indeed viable as a class? I haven't read much about it being actually played, and my take on it is it's certainly not overpowered, having only d8 HP a level and 2 skill points, and many of its abilities are pretty niche as opposed to constantly useful... BUT it gets enough cool, useful abilities that it will at least pull its weight all the way through. Agree, or am I missing some vital points?

2. What should I take as my 4th and 5th levels? I was thinking of 2 further levels of fighter, 2-handed weapon variant. That would make me 3rd level fighter, which would give me access to the ability that does double damage rather than 1.5 damage for single attacks, which is useful both for moving and attacking and my AoOs. I use a nodachi, and currently have a 19 natural strength... at 4th level that will go to 20. With the rage bonus, and the enlarge person/righteous might bonus, he will certainly be strong enough to make good use out of the extra damage.

Does 2 levels of fighter sound good, or should I perhaps go with further levels of barb, which will net me more time in rage, more HP, more skills, and a further rage power? Or something else still?

3. The feats I was thinking of for the nearish future are: 5th level Iron Will (because it's necessary for the class, and a pretty good feat anyway), and the Combat Expertise -> Improved Trip -> Greater Trip combo. That combo comes faster with the fighter levels, of course. Should I instead focus on other feats, in your collective experience?

4. Am I missing anything glaring, or misunderstanding anything?

Thanks very much for looking this over... I realize it's quite a lot of background and reading. While I have a pretty good grasp of 3.5, a lot of my knowledge is rusty, and Pathfinder certainly changes a few of the mechanics in ways I may not totally get yet. Appreciate the help, all!