Ycore Rixle's page

Kiddies asleep, presents under the tree, so a few things:

Ascalaphus, thanks for that standard action quote. I had just read that, but I misread it originally. Thanks. It does say here (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/universalMonsterRule s.html#flight-(ex,-sp,-or-su) ) that for a creature with supernatural flight, ceasing or resuming flight is a free action. So it seems supernatural flight actually is called out as an exception to the standard action 'rules' for supernatural abilities (quotes because that 'usually' in the standard action paragraph makes it a nonbinding rule, as evidenced by egregious and numerous exceptions from the babau demon I mentioned before to telepathy, see in darkness, cloudwalking, many auras, etc.). But this call-out exception for supernatural flight doesn't really matter, right? Because I think the action you're talking about is not flying but the activation of the hex, and I agree with you that they're two separate things.

In fact, I think that's where a lot of the confusion comes in. People are confusing the action of using a 1-minute increment of flight with the action of activating the Hex.

At least, I think? Seems to me a lot of people, I could be wrong, but I think they are reading that when you activate the hex, you are also activating your first minute of flying for the day. What's actually written is that when the witch activates the hex, 'she can fly, as per the spell, for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments.'

Which means it works like this: you spend your action to activate the hex. You are now just like the alchemist after he's made his discovery. You can fly x minutes per day. Nothing says you have to start flying right away. When you do fly, it is as if you were under the effects of the fly spell (supernatural, though, not spell), and you can break those x minutes up into single-minute increments used at any point throughout the 24 hours. [[NB it doesn't matter at this point if you're Ex or Su, it's simply a move action to fly, because a) that's how the flight in fly spell works, and b) that's also how the "Flight (Ex or Su)" ability linked above works."]]

I'd also point out that if you say that the Witch needs to spend an action every minute to remain flying, and you also accept SKR's comment, then you are making the alchemist a far, far better flyer than the witch. That doesn't make sense in terms of iconic powers: witches are famous for flying, floating, being lighter than air, while alchemists are known for brewing, jekyll and hyding, bombing teammates into oblivion, etc. As for concerns of being OP, I mean, as other people have mentioned, plenty of other classes get the same ability, alchemist, sorc/wiz, druid, freaking martial classes like bloodrager can get a flight speed as a free action, so... I'm not seeing the OPness.

So that's my thinking on the subject. Merry Christmas, fellow gamers!

Casual Viking, I'm not aware that they do. Do you have a reference for that? I'm looking here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities and it doesn't say that they require a standard action. And I look here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat and it specifically says that supernatural abilities do not require an action in combat.

I mean, things like the babau demon's slime are supernatural abilities. Do people play that the babau needs to spend an action to activate his slime? When? How often? Once in his life, and then it's there forever? Because the ability makes no mention of a duration.

Ascalaphus, where are the activation rules that you're referring to?

Gisher, the confusion comes from a few things. First, it says that the duration is a day. When is the standard action needed? First thing when the witch wakes up? Every time she touches ground and then wants to take off again? Every minute increment? I think if that had been the intention, the designers would have (certainly should have!) said, "You can use this Hex to cast fly with a duration of one minute, with the exception that the flight granted is supernatural rather than a spell effect. You can use this hex a number of times per day equal to your level."

The confusion also comes because there are numerous other hexes that don't specify an alternative activation time but are clearly intended to be always available - at least I think they're clearly intended to be always available - like Nails and Child Scent.

Finally, this hex is already in a muddle after the nerf to the levitate portion, a nerf that was in direct contravention of the original hex's wording.

Melkiador, I think the text is clear that you don't gain the ability to cast the spell Fly. It says you 'can cast levitate' for the levitate ability, but it uses very different wording for the flight ability.

Oh well.

Actually, I just found the oracle's Wings of Air revelation. The way that is worded is making me think that the Paizo designers meant to say something different than what they actually said. I mean, what they said in Wings of Air is ~ 'you use a swift action, you get wings, you can use them to fly x minutes per day.'

But what they meant to say, I think, is, ~ 'You can use a swift action to make your wings appear. While you have wings, you can fly. You cannot have wings for more than one minute/level per day. While you have wings, you can choose as a free action at the end of each minute to let your wings disappear." That would let you use a single swift action to be able to fly for x consecutive minutes, and that would also let you dismiss your wings after y consecutive minutes and, later in the day, use another swift action to get the wings back and fly for another z minutes. I _think_ that's what must be the intent here - otherwise why the swift action? I just wish they would have said that. So I guess I just argued myself out of my original point.

Ok, now I'm just getting annoyed. I just found this post by SKR http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n7kz?Alchemist-Wings-Discovery which says the Alchemist doesn't have to activate his wings. They're always there, always available. And since the alchemist ability is the same wording as the Witch ability, I'd say the same goes for the witch - a standard action to activate the Hex, and then the flight ability is always there, for a day, useable when ready, same way the alchemist's wings are after he makes the discovery.

eakratz wrote:

Thread necro:

Note that it cannot be always on, as it is a limited resource, with a duration, total, of only 1 minute per level, so never, in standard Pathfinder, with a pool of minutes bigger than 20.

Always on would drain that pool while thet witch is preparing her spells for the day.

Feather fall option would be an immediate action, usable at will.
Levitate option, once per day, takes a standard action.
Flight option, usable in one minute increments, takes a standard action to activate for the minute.

To me - and I'm the player in question mentioned a post above - that's a reasonable interpretation if the hex granted you the ability to cast the fly spell. A fly spell has a duration that dwindles whether you're in the air or not.

But the hex doesn't grant you the ability to cast the fly spell. And this is clearly intentional, as the previous sentence, discussing levitate, specifically grants you the ability to cast levitate. In contrast, the sentence discussing flight simply says that the witch can fly for x minutes per day, and that the flight in question is described by the fly spell, and that the x minutes per day can be broken up into minute intervals.

I think the alchemist and his Wings discovery is a useful parallel. That discovery uses virtually the same wording as the witch's hex. Are people playing so that the alchemist must use a standard action to turn his wings on, whatever that means? Are his wings supposed to be hidden in his back and sprout out when the action is used? I had assumed that once he got the discovery, he always had wings and could fly, but the wings would tire out after being used for five minutes in the day. Same goes, I thought, for the witch.

Seems to me that Nails, Child Scent, etc. don't specifically say 'does not require a standard action to activate,' and therefore would also require a standard action to activate. Is that how people are playing?