Werecorpse's page

Can you please cancel my subscriptions for adventure path after the final Giantslayer and for modules after Feast of Dust.

Thank you.

Looking at the hardcover map on page 28 there are 4 roads that lead to/from Cauldron. One goes to the west past the Lucky Monkey. We know this goes to Sasserine .

One goes past each of Kingfisher Hollow, Hollowsky and Redgorge.

Where do these lead to?

Any suggestions?

I am looking to try out 5e and this looks like a good, all level campaign.

Has anyone done a 5e conversion? Of so can you share?

About 3 years ago a campaign I was playing in fell apart for a variety of non game reasons. We had played shackled city up to about the battle in the town where the masons are. Anyway I would like to run it now with some of the same players, starting from the beginning but I am happy to make some changes so the people who went through it don't get bored ( although to be fair the secret plot was still pretty much a secret).

Any suggestions for tweaks to the early parts to make it replayable ?

Do drow in Zirnakaynin only worship demon lords?

How about ones from other cities?

Do some also worship calistria and nethys like normal elves?

I have a PC disguised as a drow who is a cleric of calistria - can that remain or does he need to pretend to worship a demon lord to openly be a cleric?

Please cancel just the rpg subscription.

I will keep the adventure path & module subscription.

Thanks.

Before running an adventure path I generally comb through the boards and have a look at what other people have done to add to it or change it. These are a great source of inspiration. I run a heavily house ruled version of the game, half way between 3.5 and pathfinder ( so heavily houseruled we have essentially re written the players handbook) with emphasis on minimizing the power spikes. We have played this for about 3 years and are on version 18 of our everchanging draft rules. However i pretty much just use the stats in the ap, the monster manual or a bestiary as I see fit. Most of this isn't important but I am putting it out there so if something I say later doesn't gel with the rules you will know why.

Also the group I run ap's with can only meet 2-3 times a year when we go away and play Friday evening to Sunday evening, generally finishing 1 book per weekend session ( although we got through 2 in the first session). We have been playing together for between 20-30 years.

In starting this ap I took heed of those who ran elf only campaigns and went with that. The players were told they would be members of, or associated with, the Shin'Rakorath which I described as being a private mercenary force heavily tied to the elven nation and a cross between special forces military and secret agents. I strongly suggested they be elves, though I said half elves and to a lesser extent gnomes were acceptable. I said that while they could be any race these were the best fit for a roleplaying sense. I advised against half-orcs or dwarves. I also said they should be mostly good but could be neutral leaning toward good, and I recommended against playing paladins and to go with more standard elven stereotypes to get the most from the game.

As part of the way I decided to assist in the immersion side of things I decided that the Shin'Rakorath ( or Rath as they were known for short) were
1. one of those need to know organizations - so not everyone knew about the drow, or the fact the Rath was the military arm of the Winter Council to start with; &
2. Would change the leader of the group depending on the type of mission at hand

I also decided that as a result of the dreadful events that occurred in the upper echelons of the Winter Council which precipitated the whole ap there would be some elements of the Winter Council that wanted to find out what Allevrah was up to, others just want to find and to silence her to protect the WC, others just maintaining business of drow hunting and secret keeping as usual etc

So first session off they went to Riddleport:
The mission leader was a Mierani forest ranger who had been involved in patrols to keep 'short lives' out of the forest. She knew of the Enemy within the Rains but not what it was. She had been in the Rath for less than a decade so a command mission was a sign of approval.
She was assigned a half elf fighter who had just joined the Rath as an associate member and who had spent about a year in Riddleport with his fathers human family a couple of years previously.
She also had a Mierani forest elven wizard who was an intelligence officer, who knew about drow and was tasked to keep the secret.
She had a Kyonin elf wizard and a Kyonin cleric. The Kyonin wizard was also an intelligence officer who knew about the drow.

Upon arrival in Riddleport they had two contacts, Kwava who had been observing the city from outside and a half Orc cleric of Calistria ( yes despite my suggestions as to race someone played a half Orc).

They understood that their mission was to track down a renegade elf who was working with the Enemy within the Rains and had come to Riddleport presumably to ally with one or more of the pirates there.

I mixed up how I ran the adventures but essentially followed the script. They could t figure out where this elf was staying in town, but people had seen her talking with the cypher mages, dealing with Cromarky etc. I threw in that they traced this mysterious elf to an inn located out of the city where she had stayed on several occasions. ( here I ran a shadow plane connection adventure to foreshadow the creation of the Armageddon echo). Eventually they found the lair but Despora ( wearing a hat of disguise) got away. They did find a barrel with rotting elven flesh in it ( she had also had recorporeal incarnation cast on her, which had expired), but thought nothing of it ( beyond eww!).

Because they were playing as elven secret agents they didn't get heavily invested in Riddleport, which was fine by me as I had just run crimson throne where the leaving of Korvosa was a bit of a sore point and I heard that had become an issue for groups not wanting to leave Riddleport.

Anyway they had some wierd notes seemingly about the Cyphergate and other stuff written in a combination of elven and some strange language ( under common) and were in the process of trying to figure out where she had gone when the meteor struck.

The children of the void went as expected. The high point for me was when they met the drow. After they killed the sentry drow and headed into the complex the Mierani elf intelligence officer stayed behind, then when he though no one was looking he poured acid on the drow faces to hide their elven nature and tossed the bodies into the sea. Unfortunately the others saw this and were a bit freaked out.

The first session finished with quite a few of the drow escaping ( inculding Despora again) and the intelligence officers explaining the secret of the existence of the drow to their companions and everyone agreeing to acid up the dead dark elves and feed them to the orca.

Hi,

I would like to cancel my campaign setting and players companion subscription.

Thanks

I am looking for ideas.

Principally I don't like the way the skill acrobatics is used to enable people to avoid attacks of opportunity. It tends to result in my experience in some classes taking this skill just so they can have a shot at avoiding attacks of opportunity. Ie wizards & sorcerers

Plus I don't like skills having such a crucial combat role.

I realize many will not agree with me.

In my view certain classes need to be able to move about the battlefield relatively freely. Rogues, monks and rangers (from the basic classes) but this mechanic is unsatisfactory. I would almost prefer doing away with that element of tumbling and granting those classes some sort of ability to ignore a certain number of attacks of opportunity a round. But that sounds too clumsy a mechanic.

Does anyone else have anything they use or have seen used?

I tried a couple of games, bought the three rule books when it first came out, didn't like it and went back to 3.5.

I am keen to see 5e and am looking forward to it.

I am a long time gamer and I am not really interested in getting a digital membership (unless it is necessary) but I feel maybe I should have given 4e more of a go.

Also I am typically the one who runs games in our group, and we are campaign players ( not just dungeon)

Is there a relatively inexpensive way to play?
What rules are current?
What are some good adventures?

Want to give it a go before the sun sets.

I have been roleplaying and hanging out with a group of guys for between 25 to 30 years. We roleplay together, we play cards together and we play the odd luck influenced board game.

We have this guy in our group, let's call him Paul, he is a fine role player and a smart guy so he doesn't generally make silly mistakes but he has terrible luck. If he does manage to roll a hit, he rolls rubbish damage. He is rarely if ever a threat for the bad guys.

We have this other guy, let's call him Matt, he is the lucky one. In most combats he can be guaranteed to pull out a couple of criticals. When it gets down to the wire, and the bad guys look like they have the party on the ropes everyone looks to Matt to pull out the crit with the big damage or the hit against the high ac or whatever. He succeeds with regularity. He is frequently a significant threat for the bad guys.

Now I am a sceptic so next time we play ( which will be an all weekend event) I am going to ask Paul to use the dice Matt would use and Matt to use the dice Paul would use. I don't think either cheats (why would Paul ?) but let's rule out bodgy dice.

The thing is it is the same with cards, and with board games (where we all use the same dice - in fact it has got so when we play settlers of cataan one of my set up plans is to put my settlements on the numbers Matt has).

So maybe Matt is just lucky at cards and dice, it doesn't have to be much, we roll a lot of dice. And maybe Paul is just unlucky. I mean this is over 25+ years and it has always been this way.

Do you have similar stories?

Does luck actually exist ?

Please cancel my Pathfinder roleplaying game subscription.

My reason is that to me it is too much rules bloat, I have so far got no use out of the advanced guides and the ultimate guide. I see plenty of people like that kind of extra rules stuff, and I tried it for three books but it ain't for me. Canceling is tough because I am a collector by nature but the piling on of rules after rules (which rules aren't really optional because they are used in the adventure paths and modules) is pushing me toward other game systems. I still am enjoying most of the rest of the stuff ( except the bits where more rule tweaks are included ) and look back fondly on the time when it was mostly about the adventures. This isn't meant to be a rant just customer feedback, I am sure you have done the maths on the value of the path you are taking.

I still love monster books and will no doubt re subscribe for bestiary 3, then duck out before the advanced races guide arrives.

Thanks

The thread title says it all,

If so which one(s), and how did it go and can you give me some info?

Firstly I like the idea that Bloodveil is basically some type of undead fungal infection (an idea I got from these forums). On that basis I dont want to use silver coins as the carrier (undead dont like silver). Happy to use copper or gold - although this tends to lead away from Abadar bank as the second point of infection.

I get that the Direption is meant to be a red herring planted by the bad guys but to me it seems like a lame attempt at a red herring and a lame attempt at infection.

My variation that I am considering is
1- Direption arrives and is full of zombies infected the bloodveil- they start to swim across to Korvosa (northside and old korvosa) and the Direption is spotted- trebuchet activates
2- The living crew (1 or a few- not sure which) of the Direption plans to escape by heading towards the varisian camp on the opposite shore but it is hit amidships and starts to sink
3- some of the living crew stagger ashore into the camp and die?

I am considering having the bloodveil possibly animate some of those who die making the plague a bit like a toned down 28 days later- though I am aware this will prevent some of the encounters (Rackham alley) and might 'cheapen' the realism of the plague.

Thoughts?

It is suggested in various parts of the CoCt adventure path that the Shoanti are planning on attacking Korvosa. This may be a red herring or may be a campaign gem depending on how you run it.

Now obviously this would require a substantial force and they need to get down from the 1000ft high plateau, how do they do it?

I have discounted the Storval stairs as to get a force down at that point would be geographically useless to an attack on Korvosa (hundreds of miles of difficult terrain to travel) and the impression I get is that the Shoanti are meant to be a more immediate /everpresent threat to Korvosa than one that has to first wander about half Varisia to get to the city.

The Halflight path seems a little limiting for maneuvering a large barbarian horde.

Any suggestions?

I dont play pathfinder society but am interested in some of the scenarios, especially linked ones (even loosly linked ones like the way the D0, D1, D1.5 etc modules were linked).
Is there somewhere I can go to find what pathfinder scenarios are linked?
Also to find out what overarching story has been played out so far and in due course what the story of the shadow lodge and so forth is?

This is partly to get bigger scenarios (as I find the pathfinder scenarios are about 1/3 of a 'real' adventure for mine) and partly just being for nosy interest sake- I cannot see myself ever participating in the society it just isnt practical for me.

I am about to start CoCt and plan on stretching out the time spent in the city before the heroes flee to find the maguffin in episodes 4&5. I intend 4&5 to consequently have a feeling of rushing to get it done- to get back for 6. So 1 to 3 need to be beefed up IMO. I am looking for suggestions or just comment, or hoping someone can get some use from my thoughts.

Here is my basic plan
1. PC's are nobles (or their servants) with connections to the Guard
2. The Lamm start will be substantially ignored
3. the campaign starts before queen has found anything or the king is sick

The nobles will fritter around in town doing stuff, help out a fellow noble with a Salvage Operation (dungeon magazine), helping evict some low life in a family holding - (Lamm- Queen connection), organise an art show with Royal attandance (King meets Trina, Seneschal meets Salvator, Queen recognizes something in Salvator screams painting that leads her to find fangs, Ambassador from Nidal makes report back to superiors, Ambassador from Cheliax is a rotter, Ambassador from Nirthamas requests another go at opening road through Bloodsworn Vale)

( I should say I ran bloodsworn Vale previously and added in a gnoll encounter which caused a TPK- so I will keep that in my storyline)

the other stuff I want to include is

--Queen points finger at either Ornelos or Arkona families when king dies and says she had to blame Trina and she hoped someone would rescue her (try and get PC's on queens side early)
-- Party has a financial interest in opening bloodswron Vale- so I can finish it + I intend to use that Dungeon adventure with the Humungous beast used as a gnoll war platform
-- The Styes and Weavers Dungeon advantures later in the piece
-- The party maybe having a bit of forshadwoing of the Arkonas and Ornelos families (ie finding the boat of dead Arkonas while they are undertaking the final bit of the Styes adventure)
--that dungeon adventure with the Kenku/tengu and the pearl shipment (I wish I had my dungeons to hand)

any suggestions comments so far?

Having seen the little benefits that can be gained from 'training with' or whatever various NPC's referred to as 'boons', I was just wondering what other Boons would be reasonable/appropriate?

any ideas?

One of the areas of the greyhawk gazetteer where I gained most of my inspiration was not the description of the countries but the description of the forests or hills or deserts. Knowing that Keoland did x or y was fine but my adventurers spent 90% of their time in the Hool marshes or the Hellfurnaces. The information on what lived there or that there is an ancient ruin in the Suss forest was the pure adventuring gold.

But the Campaign book appears to me to be sadly lacking this information. (or if it is there where is it?)Is it going to be in the new one? Please.

If not could a companion or whatever be released with a few paragraphs about each of the Forests, Mountains, Hills, bays, lakes etc of the world. (ie what lives there, are their ancient ruins, undead? etc)

(PS I know there is a whole bunch of info on Varisia in one of the early AP's (3 I think) but this is a more general request)

Purple worm, Behir, Nightcrawler or whatever grapples PC then swallows it. Once in the tummy is the PC still considered grappled?

I have seen some discussion about the disjunction trap and the morph mist trap but is there any discussion about the mirror of opposition trap and how it has been handled?

to me it seems deadly beyond belief

1 person gets into the 'trap spot' glances left or right suddenly 2 of him attack, surely he loses that fight?

lets say 4 people walk in the mirrors activate for 3 of them and there are 6 bad guys fighting 4 good guys.

what have you done or how have you played this?

and by the way were there any other traps in the runeforge that I havent spotted that casue this level of problem?

the Runeforge is a pretty cool concept but the AP's reasons for going there (and benefits obtained)are pretty weak.

At the beginning of AP4 it says on a metagame level they will find/create items to help them destroy the runewell- but this turns out to be incorrect. They do find how to make items that will help them a bit but destroying the runewell is not an option and destroying the soul gem (or whatever that thing is in the runewell i forget now)is a pretty poor option.

In reading Mockmurians notes at the end of AP4 he says he is looking for the hellfire flume with the traitor in it maybe to find the key or to personally destroy this site (which given he cant possibly know the scribbler will return is pretty lame- why does Karzoug or Mockmurian want the site of the scribblers death destroyed anyway)

then in AP5 the scribbler knows where the Runeforge is but doesnt have a key and you dont need one- you just have to know the site to get there (so that key idea is gone) and given Karzoug must know how to get to the runeforge then What is going on?

What I want is for the PC's to have a damn good reason to go to the Runeforge, and not one that turns out to be false.

What have other people tried and how has it worked?

Back in 1st edition (AD&D)a 13th level wizard did 13d6 with a fireball-- more damage with a fireball or magic missile than a 10th level wizard.

I think this changed in 2nd edition.

But in AD&D you stopped getting hit dice above about 10th level and just gained a few hit points so it kind of made sense.

now in 3rd edition (& pathfinder) you get tonnes of hit points but evocation spells still have the cap. Can someone tell me the reason for these caps?

(and by the way why do some 1st level spells like burning hands & shocking grasp cap apply at 5th level but magic missiles not apply until 9th level?)

I understand the logic for giants being a sub class of humanoid but they have suffered a fairly significant change by being classed as humanoids in the spells that can effect them. They will as a rule have weak will saves such that now 0 level daze becomes an excellent option against an ogre, hold person stuffs most other giants. Sure they can now enlarge person but I was hoping in the bestiary the subtype of giant would get some sort of resistance against this type of magic - to me a stone giant being taken down by a hold person just seems wrong.

Giants seem less mystical now- just big people.

certainly the RotRL becomes a lot more tame.

how do people feel about this change?

I have just run fortress of the stone giants which resulted in the characters sneaking quite successfully into the lower levels, killing only a few stone giants, befriending Conna, heading to the lower level, not getting in to the library and having a battle to a standstill against Mokmurian resulting in him fleeing to get reinforcements. They were at that stage forced to grab what they could and teleport out.

They had already ambushed the returning sandpoint raid giants at the Storval stairs and rescued the captured Sandpointers but I had the ‘lighthouse stone’ not be with them.

I am not a big fan on the ‘rest for a day and teleport back in to finish the job’ plan. Once a battle has been fought it is done IMO so I am looking for alternative suggestions from here.

It seems to me I could just have them launch in to the next adventure back in Sandpoint and have Mokmurian continue to gather his forces but I am not sure then what to do with Mokmurian and his giant army, plus the library seems to hold the clues for the future.

Suggestions please.

I am part of the group that found level 14+ cumbersome time consuming and ultimately swingy in 3.5. What do people see as the 'fixes' in Pathfinder beyond seeking to largely remove save or die effects?

And what bits?
why?
and how do they work out?

I am interested to know why certain changes were made. I realise that others on the board can speculate on the reason but only the game designers can answer the questions as to why a particular decision was made.

Why for example paladins smite was changed to the way it is.

Why lay on hands is like it is.

Why spiked chains no longer have reach.

Why dwarves can roll to spot secret doors (in stone) when they walk past them but elves dont have this listed in their racial ability any more.

Why bards inspire courage got turned into a competence bonus.

Why clerical domains got powers & spells, and why say Travel which had great spells got great powers as well.

I am partly interested in how the rules work but mostly why they work the way they do. Are answers being given by the game designers yet?

This spell is pretty awesome but the ring seems oddly low priced. Is it useable at will?

I would think an at will use activation blink ring would cost 108,000gp. It seems they have forgotten to multiply by 4 for a rounds duration spell (I think this was the same in 3.5 DMG)

I am a Buffy fan, dont know much about Twilight but it worked for me.

I cant do links

www.perezhilton.com/2009-06-22-edward-cullen-meets-buffy-summers

While it is hard to judge spellcasters without seeing the spells it looks to me that a pathfinder paladin and fighter are significantly tougher than their 3.5 counterparts, maybe 1 level every 4 or so levels? Is this power creep going to be similar for the other classes?

If the treasure per character level remains as in Beta (9th level character has 49,000gp as opposed to 36,000gp in 3.5) this is definitely going to be the case.

I am aware of the risk of being told to wait & see (and I will) but on a preliminary view based on the previews and what I know of Beta if I am running a 10th level 3.5 dungeon with a bunch of pathfinder characters they look like they will make mincemeat of it- certainly the paladin will make mincemeat of any BBEG (compared to the same way a 3.5 would face it).

"Hello necromantic stone giant-I choose you to be my b#@ch"

whack/smite; whack/smite; whack/smite;

I am not a fan of powercreep but it is what it is and those who play these characters will have new faster shinier powers. I get that.

But really looking back on my 3.5 adventure collection what is expected be the level adjustment of those adventures (not based principally on going up against other character classes) to take into account pathfinder power creep?

This is full of spoilers

I am contemplating running an evil game - to let people be necromancers, assassins etc.

I am playing in SC and running RotRL so they are out, I prefer the pathfinder AP over the Dungeon AP's (as I dont like really high level stuff)but am not that fussy.

does anyone have any suggestions or experiences?

Specifically where it says that the possessor gets the AC and save bonuses of the dragon in the orb (being an ancient dragon of the type), what does this mean?

I am looking for some ideas for:

1) what is in the Wishers Well.

I note it is closish to the Pit and contemplate that the Pit leads to an underwater section of the Wishers Well. throw me some ideas.

2) Also I am looking for some plant/ancient slumbering fey in the whisperwood

3) Some info/inspiration on the set up of the swamp witch and the boggards/faceless stalkers

4) In my game Bruthazmus the bugbear has survived and dug up the bones of Nualia and taken them to the 'devil worshipping bugbears' any ideas for this?

I like connected stuff and have an idea that the devil worshipping bugbears, the caves beneath the devils platter, the pit, the sandpoint devil and the wishers well are all connected.

maybe the swampwitch and the whisperwood are too?

I am hoping to use the Piazo board resource to nudge me along with this stuff

Can a rogue (or anyone ) use sleight of hand to take say a spell components pouch,holy symbol, metamagic rod, wand etc not being used while in combat. (I understand if it is in hand it's a disarm check perhaps)

if so it seems very easy (DC20) and on a metagame level a bit odd.

how have other people handled this- or how should it be handled?

I have recently been suffering some players who constantly need to wander off, speak on the mobile, go for a smoke etc or sit there but when their turn comes around they clearly havent been paying attention. I am looking for ideas to reward attentive players who sit their dutifully waiting for their turn.

An ideas is
- if you state what you character will do pretty much immediately you get a token-- once you have 3 tokens they automatically cash in for a) healing 1 hp/level or b) roll damage twice take the best c) get extra movement (5-10') d) a magic potion or scroll gets a couple of levels upgrade or something similar.

I am not looking for big rewards, I want tiny ones- but not exp or treasure and not stuff that builds up over time.

has anyone else tried something like this?

I dont know about you but to me I see iconic adventurers wielding swords, daggers and axes.

With devastating blow comes the hunt for big critical multipliers. For some wierd reason this means I now fear cloud giants wielding scythes.

Pathfinder has now made kukri a martial weapon meaning it is the small weapon of choice rather than the dagger for martial weapon users.

Maybe I am just being picky but as my high level barbarian PC's tromp out on their next adventure armed with scythes and kukris I am going to be shaking my head a little

Somewhere I read that these additional rules for the 3.5 dmg prestige classes would be coming out a short time after beta was published, and there was a program for other stuff as well.

Please sir, What is the proposed timeline for this stuff?

Thread speaks for itself. I am speaking of Seven Swords of Sin. I am thinking of using this together with Gallery of Evil (U2) in the campaign and as it seems an obvious fit am wondering how it played out with others.

Or indeed what other adventures have been successfully used in the campaign to beef it up.

I have a player who wishes to play a sorcerer/fighter mix.

essentially the Eldritch knight prestige class.

Should he keep getting his bloodline abilities as he goes up in caster level once he is an EK?

my initial view is yes but I am after some input.

I know it was in 3.5 but why?

I assume all it requires to throw a vial of acid is to get it out. How is this a full round action?

Is there a simulationist reason?

Is there some game mechanic reason why it is so?

(PS sorry about putting this in the general thread i couldn't find a spot to discuss rule in pathfinder beta)

Death

There are several things that are unsatisfactory about death & unconsciousness in 3.5. I will start by saying that in my experience if a character dies in campaign play it is up to the DM whether or not they 'let' them come back (through access to the usual spells).

Looking at the mechanics when a person suffers hit points damage less than their total hit points (i.e. when they are still on positive hit points) they suffer no loss of function. Thus it makes sense that this loss of hit points does not signify broken bones, serious mechanical injury or anything of the sort. It can only be reasonably presumed that damage represents, bruising, grazes, flesh wounds, winding and so forth.

Secondly when curing occurs it repairs such damage. The only time this is not correct is if the person is dead (excluding unusual methods of prevention such as clay golem wounds).

Thirdly when a character with 12 hp goes to -10 they die. When they have 160hp is reduced to -10 they die, this feels bit strange.

In 3.5 characters go up levels much faster than in previous editions. Thus whereas in first edition a character capable of raising the dead was the type of character who would rule over a small realm, in 3.5 they get to that level in a few short weeks of adventuring. This means that raising the dead is much more accessible in a game sense.

In addition there are numerous effects in D&D which are save or die, which leads to the ‘game mechanic necessity’ that characters be able to come back to life.

In classic fantasy novels or films dead usually is the end. In D&D it would be fair to say that death is a “condition” that can be removed by spells such as raise dead, resurrection etc (admittedly leaving a penalty but still you are alive). This makes death prosaic when it should be dramatic and significant.

From a simulationist point of view if one accepts that curative spells repair injuries then providing the severe injuries to a body are repaired or adequately attended to within a short space of time (say 3 minutes ) and the body is able to function it is reasonable it should recover and a character survive. I while I hesitate to mention reality- people can die from the slightest unlucky blow and they can equally survive a remarkable amount of trauma Let us assume PC's are in the second category.

I would rather have death be much much rarer for PC’s but also much much harder to come back from. From a backward compatible stance I would rather there was a condition called say ‘critical’ which is what happens when you hit -10 which had a similar game mechanic to current death but was not death. Death should be something you do not come back from, except maybe with a 9th level spell, or exotic magic of some sort.

OK so that is the philosophy to this approach now what are the mechanical rules?

a. Whenever a character would die under the current rules (including failing a save against a death effect like a bodaks stare) they now become critically injured and unconscious (i.e. they have the ‘critical’ and ‘unconscious’ condition) and their hit points drop to and remain at -10
b. Critical condition means you may only take a single move action and can only be healed up to 1 hit point until they have the critical condition removed (additional healing is wasted) further you have 1 negative level, even when you become conscious
c. You cannot acquire the Critical condition after you already have it.
d. Once on -10 any further hit points damage is ignored. If left untended the character must make a DC15 con check every minute for 3 minutes then every 10 minutes. If made they go to -9 hit points.(If you wish it to be more lethal you die if you fail 3- I dont encourage this as I want death to be virtually permanent)
e. On -9 or more hit points you recover 1 hit point per round until you reach 1 hit point.
f. Removal of the critical condition can only occur through rest, 1 day per level or through a 5th level cleric spells Raise dead/Greater restoration/Regenerate/ Resurrection (with the similar components) however the negative level will remain until the character has earned 1000exp per level they had when they became critical.
g. An alternative to the negative level can be some injury appropriate to the Critical, i.e. character becomes vulnerable to fire, cannot speak loudly, loses 5’ movement, loses a few fingers. These scars should fade with time (as would the negative level), or be healable with appropriate efforts and become roleplaying elements
h. This system only applies to PC’s and important NPC’s others just die.

How does PC death actually occur?
a. The body is destroyed or the head removed (DM Fiat)
b. The player elects to allow the character to die (Character Fiat)

Even though at first glance this looks like a completely backward incompatible idea, and a bit soft on the PC's the only difference is that you call the thing you become at -10 something other than death and PC's can recover a bit from it.

As an added benefit given you would get rid of Raise dead and resurection (though keep a type of true resurrection) it would help explain why those important NPC's like kings and generals who die arent just immediately raised from the dead.

On the weekend I ran a group through D1.5 and E1. 4 characters, a ranger, a sorcerer, a cleric and a fighter. The first three characters had been through D0 and D1 so were adjusted from 3.5. the fighter was a newly created pathfinder character. My comments below

Character/Race: we did not like the favored class hit point concept- it felt like it was pushing people to be more stereotypical. the races that are good fighters and clerics already have bonuses for this they dont need extra hit points.

Everyone chose toughness- perhaps that indicates it is too good- I would prefer +3 hp or +1 hp per level whichever is more.

Having said this having heaps of hit points worked pretty well.

Ranger: the +2 to hit (as well as damage) against favored enemies seemed a bit much. The animal companion was still lame.

Sorcerer: chose fey bloodline but didnt really get much out of it mechanically (except roleplaying flavor so all good there). Still ran out of spells and ended up acid splashing. This is worse than a light crossbow so needs some improvement (perhaps damage is 1d3 + (lower of stat or level))

Cleric: Channeling worked really well. I thought the heal side would be too powerful but I was wrong. the domain powers seemed a bit bland (he was war and strength from when he was a 3.5 cleric) and the 1st level abilities having to be used within 3 rounds meant he never used them- and this is the sort of player always looking for an angle. they were just not worth the opportunity cost.

Fighter: he worked fine- bizarrely he was an archer (the ranger was a two weapon fighter) so we didnt get to see cleave in action. I must say I am worried about the fighters AC bonus ability I reckon fighters with any sort of dex could get untouchable very quickly.

CMB worked fine but once grappled too hard to break free.

I liked your spells: confusion much much much better- this is a spell I hate in 3.5 (as a DM). I also liked entangle and like Web but havent seen it used.

I look forward to seeing Beta.

I am going to be a PRPG player, for sure. I may play 4e too but for this thread I would be interested ONLY in the things that people have seen in 4e that they like and think could be adapted to PRPG. Remember PRPG is still in development for a year - people should be playtesting all sorts of games (including 4e) and posting what they like about those other games that could be included in PRPG.

I have scanned a bit of the 4e phb and I like the way they have done skills, specifically:

-less skills
-lock step progression for everyone
-if you are trained you get a flat bonus

--this could work in PRPG by saying you get 1/2 your level in every skill, +5 it is a class skill. (but maybe only say +2 if it is your non-primary class to stop mutliclass abuse).

anyone else?

Ok then, lets have a look at what this new system has got for me. About time they stopped listening to that damn dwarven lobby group- movement not effected by armor! Being slow was their only weakness in 1st 2nd and 3.0 then suddenly in 3.5 all the dwarves can keep up with me when I put on chainmail, and they got a free exotic weapon proficeincy- totally bogus. My kind almost died out in 3.5, but I can feel it is time to make a comeback---Hello Pathfinder!

Hmmmm let me see......

WTF! +2 Wisdom for Dwarves, great so now the will save weakness gets eaten away (not that it effected them with their save bonus againts spells anyway!) and they get a favoured class hit point per level-- NO WAY DUDE!

Ok so now people like me more? huh? I still get that lame -2 to con, yeah right because elves are so sickly, +2 to int...man I should just give up and become a frickin wizard.

So let me get this right with the con difference- I get 3 HIT POINTS A LEVEL LESS than that freaky dwarven fighter, and if i wear any armor other than light he moves just as fast as me-- screw this I am gonna check out 4th edition- what is your problem with the Elven Fighter!

I have found that all other major spellcasting classes are able to use all their spells in a day but inevitably the wizard is left with a couple of spells which turn out to be useless. My attempt at a solution for this is below:

Studied spell: Wizards get to cast an additional spell per day for each spell level they can cast, excluding their highest level. For example a 5th level wizard gets an additional 0, 1st and 2nd level spell. This spell does not have to be memorised and can be any spell in their current spell book.(If you consider this to be overpowered the alternative is to allow them to leave one spell of each spell level, excluding their highest, unspecified and they can specify it later as long as it is in their book)

Reason:
1-It encourages wizards to have a variety of spells in their spellbook
2-To me wizards are meant to have greater flexibility but less raw power than sorcerers
3- it means if the wizard thinks they might need an esoteric spell they dont have to prepare it 'just in case' hence wasting a slot.

Thoughts, comments?

I see on enworld a reference to this book coming out in October 21. Maybe I havent been paying attention and this has always been on the cards but it makes me feel a bit depressed that we are still 4 months away from the release date and they already have an expansion planned. It just underscores the principal that the 3 'core books' are less core than in current or past editions.

This is purely a marketing gimmick complaint- I am interested to see 4th edition when it arrives ( I see it as a different game rather than a deiiferent edition of the same game). I just dont want to have to immediately start putting aside money for rules expansions.

I see there have been a couple of threads about what OGL books are good for a collection in general but I am interested specifically in what books are being used by the designers of the pathfinder and gamemastery stuff. Obviously PHB, DMG, MM1 (to the extent they are OGL) are being used I see GR's Advanced bestiary is being used, and presumably a Tome of Horrors (which one?). I generally prefer to own the basic reference books rather than rely upon the material in the stat block.