Ungey's page

The druid stuff is pretty glaring and the fact they reprinted the spell they didn't fix it was pretty disheartening. RAI I'm certain it works but right now the rules they gave us dont work so it's pretty lacklustre.

Druids need to be able to shift into forms using their wild pool, currently because of how the spell is worded they get all the base bonuses but do not actually get a form so no damage boosts. That's got to change.

I'm looking for the Caveat codified or the specific spot in the rules where it says that prepared=pick for spontaneous casters/ Power uses.

Rules as intended I 100% agree with the fact it should be more flexible if cast as a spontaneous or wild shaped spell. But the rules as they currently are in the book don't allow for that.

They specifically read "If/When you prepare this spell add one of the following." A line completely unique to those spells.

If you do not prepare Animal form you only get

19 AC
+7 to hit
+1 Damage
5 Temp HP
Low light vision
Athletics bonus +7

The paragraph starting with "If you prepare this spell" only applies if you prepare the spell it does not say if you cast or spontaneously cast this spell or use wild shape. Preparing spells is a specific thing on page 192.

In fact under spontaneous spells on 192 it specifically states You dont prepare spells.

Can someone point out where wild druids get to pick their form when they spend a spell point to shape change.

Animal form and all of the other shape changing spells state "If you prepare this spell, choose from the options below"

There is nothing in the Wild Shape ability that supersedes this. From the rules preparing spells s only done by prepared casters (Wizard, Druid, Cleric) P 192.

So if they spend a Spell Slot on Animal form they can pick what animal they can change into. If they use their spell pool class ability they become an "Animal" but gain none of the specific abilities or increases to damage etc since this casting of animal form is not prepared.This would also be the case for any Spontaneous casters that chooses Animal form and its upgrades.

Am I reading this correctly? and is this intended?

Is a level 17 Dragon from druid shifting with his wild shape only dealing 5d4+12? (Armbands to increase unarmed damage)

Man I wish the first thing they did was write clear and concise rules for this stuff.

A solid anatomy of a turn that takes precedent over everything. Only modified by entrys that specifically call out that they alter said section.

The duration of conditions section was where my groups discussion started to fall apart. It adds a lot of ambiguity to something that I think needs to be codified a bit better.

Fatigue says additiona action causes cumulative penalties and they stay until the begining of the next turn. The first paragraph in the condition section says if the condition is removed you are no longer effected.

Le Sigh someday we may know the answer but today it seems clear as mud.

Thanks so much.

My group has a bit of a rules question regarding when the Fatigue should be applied to the barbarian and when the penalties fall off.

My interpretation.

Fatigue added at the begining of the turn after rage ends if using old rules turn 4. You are then fatigued through turn 4 until turn 5 where the fatigue status drops off.

Their interpertation:

Fatigue begins during the end of turn phase so lasts one round from that point so the penalties for Rage persist only for your actions during round 4 and then fall off during end of turn on round 4 because the fatigue is no longer on the character.

I've looked everywhere for a proper answer to this. The conditions blog post includes to the -4 to everything but never stated if it resets at the top of the next turn or at the end.

The condition section has a bunch of references but nothing concrete.

The Fatigue condition talks about it dropping off at the begining of a turn. Which would cause an issue with the end of turn interpretation because it would only be there between rounds and be not really a penalty.

The second paragraph under conditions syste once they are gone they cease to give negatives.

Then the one about values dosen't refer to fatigued since it's an on off condition.

If I can get any help or direction that would be super I believe I'm right with RAI. But raw it's a mess.

While playing the third adventure in the playtest our group ran across a problem. One of the enemies has the Vanish ability which has the concentration trait. The problem we ran into was some interperted the concentration trat as the same as the concentrate on a spell action. While after looking over everything we eventually determined that the trait is not affiliated with the concetrate on a spell action in any way other than in name. Using the same/extremely similar termonology for two very seperate things caused the confusion.

After our conversation we thougth that the best way to clear up any issue would be to change the key word concentrate to a different key word. We thought Focus would be a great term having essentially the same conotation and getting us away from the overlapping terms. Leaving concentrate referring only to spells with concentration as a duration.

Not sure if anyone else has ran into the issue but this was one we stumbled across and had use pouring over the rulebook to try to figure out an answer. Hopefully some others others agree.

The only other monster that has disguise in the change shape description is Faceless stalker

A faceless stalker can assume the form of a Medium humanoid at will but requires 10 uninterrupted minutes to alter its body. Performing this transformation is somewhat painful, but the faceless stalker can maintain its new form indefinitely once it has achieved it. It can change back to its true form as a swift action and gains a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and saving throws for 1 round after it does so.

Faceless stalkers retain their own innate abilities when they assume their new form and do not gain any of those belonging to the creature they mimic. A faceless stalker gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks when they are used in conjunction with this ability."

However this is untyped and the only other mention of anything gaining a + to disguise It is also pre calculated into their stat block.

The monster Entry for Kitsune does not have the Shapechange pre calculated into their stat block in fact none of the other sifters that I have looked up do.

Jakalwere
Proteans
Lamia Matriarch
Barghests
Rakshaka

None of these have any bonus that shows up even though they have Change self So I would think the +10 from Polymorph subschool is just simply not calculated into any of the entries for change shape. The universal ability actually does not state that it gives a bonus to disguise.

A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume the appearance of a specific creature or type of creature (usually a humanoid), but retains most of its own physical qualities. A creature cannot change shape to a form more than one size category smaller or larger than its original form. This ability functions as a polymorph spell, the type of which is listed in the creature’s description, but the creature does not adjust its ability scores (although it gains any other abilities of the creature it mimics). Unless otherwise stated, it can remain in an alternate form indefinitely. Some creatures, such as lycanthropes, can transform into unique forms with special modifiers and abilities. These creatures do adjust their ability scores, as noted in their descriptions.

So I think It should be the 20 and not the 10. but I wish there was an faq about this because it really could use some kind of official answer. And I would still like to see other opinions about it.

Just wondering what the ruling is on a kitsunes change shape.

Do they get +10 racial bonus to disguise, then an additional +10 for the polymorph subschool bonus totaling + 20 at level one?

or do they just get the +10 when the use their change shape?

Kaboogy wrote:

But then it still counts as improvised, so it's 3 below Rough and Ready.

Except Catch Off Guard, gained by the Humble Beginnings trait, removes that penalty, at least for the frying pan, and thus surprise weapon is better. For other kitchen implements, I recommend just taking the feat instead of humble beginnings, but if you want to specialize in the pan the trait is ok.

There's a rogue archetype (makeshift scrapper) in one of the soft cover splats, melee tactics toolbox maybe? It lets you make your skillet magic for when you need it for penning DR/hitting incorporeal without having to argue the grey area of improvised weapons in general. Might be worth looking at. I know you're set up as a slayer, but the archetype patches the incorporeal targets issue very neatly.

A wand of Magic Weapon is on the Short list of items for the character. I think lots of wands are going to be great choices. They are going to end up being his bread and butter so to speak letting me get a bit more distance out of the frying pan than one would normally.

He also uses a meat hook and not just the pan so the negative from imp weapon on the disarm weapon would make it work less efficiently. I took Swashbuckler to allow me to take Combat Trick a second time because of the heavy feat requirement to get everything online So trapfinding and trap sense are both swapped out. So I cant be both. It was looked at first as an option but the extra feat makes everything online faster. And being able to just use a wand to get everything online

So I wanted to make a character that was a professional Chef who needed the society to help him gain money for his resturant / Full set of Mithral cooking equipment the Waffle iron in UE is non stick and likely non scratch so a full set would be amazing as a professional Cook. So I started wanting to Min/Max ended up with less profession cook and more of an actual character that has some fun interactions. So long as everything works the way they seem.

If anyone sees anything that totally illegal please let me know so i can work on more revisions.

Chef Sappy
Human: Favored Class: Slayer
Stats 10/18/12/13/10/14 base
Traits:
Rough and Ready +1 trait to hit with Kitchen Utencils Not considered Improvised Weapons, Humble Beginings (Frying Pan) : Gives Catch off guard when using my Frying pan.

Human Feat Combat Expertise,

L1 Unchained Rogue.1 (Swashbuckler) Feat: Improved Disarm, 1d6 SA

L2 Unchained Rogue.2 Rogue Talent : Combat Trick: Sap adept

L3 Unchained Rogue.3 Finesse Training(Sap), Feat: Solo Manuvers,
2d6sa

L4 Slayer1 1 Stat point +1 Dex

L5 Slayer2 2 Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: Break Guard

L6 Slayer3 3d6 SA

L7 Slayer4 Slayer Talent: Rogue Talent: Combat Trick : Sap Master,
Feat : Greater Disarm

L8 Slayer5 +1 Dex

L9 Slayer6 4d6 Feat: Betraying Blow Slayer Talent: Ranger Fighting style: Improved Two weapon fighting, Slayer talent 1/6 Human: Powerful Sneak

L10 Unchained Rogue 4 Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Redirect Force

Important Occurances and interesting stuff

Level 1 Acquiring a Wand of Refine Improvised Weapon. Meat Hook acts like a Masterwork Hook Hand and Frying pan acts as a Masterwork Sap

Level 3 Highlights Avg damage 16.5 non lethal with the Frying pan Vs. an unarmed foe

Level 5 Highlights We get a free attack as a swift action vs anyone we disarm!

level 6 highlights +12 to disarm, Sap +8 to hit 4d6+7x2 avg 42 when disarming or 21 when already disarmed / flanking

Level 7 highlights CMB 15 to disarm Frying pan attacks at +9+9+4 1d6+4+6d6+6 non lethal per hit AVG single hit is 34.5 If everything hits 103.5 non lethal per round to anyone I can disarm

Level 9 highlinghts *Depending on Sense motive of opponent. Two disarm attempts at +17/12 CMB, Frying pan attacks are 12/12/7 vs Flat footed AC, 1d6+5+8d6+8+9(9 Max from Betraying Blow) 53.5 per hit = 170 average damage Non lethal with all three Frying pan hits. You have to get a disarm on one of the two attempts to get the damage to that level

Anything after Ninth level is all theory craft And this character is currently 100% naked other than a Meathook and a Frying pan, +5 to bluff and a +4 cha item for all of the calculations.

So It looks like I am going to be using Chef Sappy for this weekends PFS content at level 1 where he will mostly be a skill monkey and use disarm to trigger his sap happy playstyle

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