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Would it be worth noting that the thought of making Half-Elf and Half-Orc be their own races and allow them to take either one or two Race/Heritage Feats to gain access to the Elf and Human Race choices might be a bit better overall?

If not, how so?

If so, how so?

I guess I like the idea of letting a Human be a Half-Elf or Half-Orc is great, but it's the execution in the book that drives the point home that where any other race gets a Race Feat.

A Half-race needs really two of their very valuable Race Feats to get where they could otherwise have been, if they were both rolled up as base Races, and given options to spread their Race Feats around to let the player customize the Heritage of their given specific character.


I have a hopefully useful question: how were the total number of skill choices per class determined?

As in, a Rogue, gets 10. That's huge. I don't remember all the rest, but they were on average at best 5 for almost all the rest, and I think I saw some 3's. All these are before Intelligence Modifier.

Would the other Classes benefit from having 25/50/75 percent of the Rogue's 100 percent choice range? If not, why? If so, why?

Basically, how might this be addressed, as, considering the sheer range of options, the ability to spread out skills choices actually makes the Skills far more meaningful.

By focusing on perhaps one or maybe at most two Skills to be Signature, and the rest just get left alone, the Rogue is the skill-monkey of the party, and is arguably the only one with a broad enough Skill package after getting so many choices to spread around to pull their own weight.

I think the concept of the Skill system as presented thus far is for now sound enough to proceed with further playtesting. The TEML categories is new, and it would be better if a character can get more Skills to start and then if able, meaningful choices as they level up if they can spread all their Skill picks at maybe 25/50/75 percent of the Rogue, which is the 100 percent in this case.

Maybe using a sort of reverse HP system on Skills, or at least, as a general guideline, of the 25/50/75/100 percent for the classes might be best utilized as a 4/6/8/10 system, for example. Or, if need be, use the 3/6/9/12 if that works better.

Constructive Criticism, please.

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Saga edition used the 1/2 Class level, rounded down, minimum 1, I think, system, and used a flat +5 to be trained in a skill. There were Talents and some feats that gave additional bonuses, but there are/were entries on the character sheet for this additional entry.

This is a great starting point for the next edition of Pathfinder.

Per the thread in the Player Rules subsection on Skills, Feats, etc., there's a real problem with lots of numbers to plug in, especially with the sheer amount of new stuff when comparing PF1 to PF2.

The best solution is possibly a summary somewhere near the front of the Skills Chapter that goes over specifically the fully laid out and listed example of a given Skill case, such as, that Human Fighter they were using from the Character Creation section.

As in, take the mess that is the text of what seems to be the way to figure out the total Skill bonus based on so many options that it is hard to see what each one is, and then just lay out how it works right there.

I know, hand-holding, to some. Well, when one does not have the context of the writers when reading and trying to comprehend the book, all a reader can do is try to figure out what it all means.


Talents is a much better word, and references Star Wars Saga Edition, which handles this rather well. The problem is, in the new Pathfinder Playtest book, well, there's a few issues in the book.

Here's a quick rundown:

0 - Talent works, Feat, seems... too closely defined to the old PF1.
If there's going to be one word to unite all of this system, use Talents.

SWSE used both Feats and Talents, and they did interact, but, they were two different things.

Feats... raw potential, as in, if there's General Class Abilities, maybe they could be Feats for the sake of being simple?

Talents sound more like Class and Skill training, to me.

From here, I am going to attempt to offer names for the various types of Feats, to try and clear up any confusion.

1 - Ancestry? Racial? Feature? Lineage? Bloodline?

2 - Could Class Feats be Abilities, perhaps?

3 - Skills would likely be the best use for Talents, as a name.

4 - Powers should be separate from...

5 - Spells, which leads to...

6 - Feats would make the most sense as fundamental alterations.

To me Feats are the raw foundational abilities that allow changes to what the character can already do, and the increased options to improve, augment, supplement, compliment, or otherwise meaningfully improve said character's other options.

Hello all, two things here.

1 - List all GP starting money pools in silver piece units. Far easier.

2 - Talents is a much better word for this system layout than feats. Saga edition used Talents, and I think the precedent for something as complex as this might need both Talents and Feats, but, choosing just one, Talents is the only way to realistically go, from here.

I'm sorry for not providing context before; here it is now:

- Level 20 Gestalt
- 4d6, take the highest 3d6, reroll all 1's
- If not beaten, base stats are 18, 18, 16, 16, 14, 14

The most recent actual low torment equivalent gear, have Legendary Powers that are mostly from the Pathfinder Unchained book, that a monster can conceivably get for part of their type build.

To put that another way, the legendaries with basic abilities such as weapons and armor have one more +1 depending upon what they are, and a nifty trait of a monster, as if the player were getting one of the Unchained monster abilities within that book.

The OP gear is about Torment 30; below is a Torment 1 or so piece of gear:

- +22 Full-Plate Of the Titan
- +11 (+20 to AC total) Full Plate
- +11 Properties (pick any 11 total points of Armor item properties one likes)
- Legendary Power: You may wield Large weapons and Shields, while only a Medium sized Creature (Or, as a Huge sized Creature when the wearer is a Large sized creature)

This is much more in line with what I was testing, while not providing proper context fully; again, sorry.

Does this help? If not, I am willing to try to provide better ideas.


So, to put it bluntly, I'm working on making some gear that's Legendary. Literally: Artifact Legendary gear, pretty much.

I'm running a Pathfinder Diablo mashup game.

Here's a sample piece of gear:


Astartes Pauldron


+ 10% HP
+ 10% AC
+ 10% BAB
+ 1 To all Saves


The target is under the permanent effect of a (1/2 Character Level Total) Level Paladin's Mercy; this effect allows the wearer to select the differing Mercy benefits granted at levels 3, 6, 9, and 12.
+ 1 Grit Point per Turn

Legendary Affix:

Your attacks gain the Truestrike Spell effect.


So, this is my conundrum: this is basically the equivalent to Torment X (ten, 10) gear. Is + 1% HP enough, or is this my baseline of gear? I'm fine either way, however, this feels like pretty solid starting Legendary equipment.

The other issue: Gear like this is going into a Level 20 Gestalt PF and Paizo only campaign. The enemy is off training, and the players are pretty much in a situation where they actually have to work with Asmodeus to get anywhere from here on out.

Thoughts please; please also keep feedback constructive. This is going to happen, the question is simply how to best bring in flavor that livens up the game, rather than causing damage to my story.

Hello reader, this thread is still in idea stage currently.

I am attempting to figure out how to convert some Astartes over to Pathfinder system, just in case I ever figure on using them in game.

I have collected feedback thus far, and things look reasonably bright.

Here is the plan thus far:

Race: Astartes

Human base everywhere, with the following added:
+ 4 RP - Flexible Feat (Included in both Humans and Astartes)
+ 2 RP - Static Feat, Toughness
+ 1 RP - Racial Skills, Perception and Survival
+ 3 RP - Darkvision 120 Ft. (Space Wolves, if it need be said)


Blood Claw:
1 Barbarian (Armored Hulk)
2 Fighter

Grey Hunter:
1 Barbarian (Armored Hulk)
2 Fighter
1 Ranger (Track in Heavy Armor, nothing else)
1 Gunslinger (Gun Tank)

Tech Equipment: (Bolt Pistol and Chainsword for Blood Claws, Grey Hunters carry all below)

+ 3 CR Boltgun; 3d6 Damage, 18-20 / x 2, 150 ft., 60 rounds
(Uses .75 Cal bolt rounds; wielder carries 9 total mag's)
+ 1 CR Aux. Gren. Launcher, 6d6, 3 shots, treat as a fireball
+ 2 CR Bolt Pistol; 3d6 Damage, 18-20 / x 2, 50 ft., 20 rounds
(Uses .75 Cal bolt rounds; 5 mag's, can go in boltgun)
+ 2 CR Chainsword; 3d8 Damage, 15-20 / x 3, Melee, Keen, Impact,
Deadly (base weapon property)

Normal Equipment:

O Yoroi "Power Armor"
+ 1 to Armor provides 1/2 the Base Armor Bonus to Touch AC,
round down
Combat Knife (Longsword)
Equipment Frame (Aurora's Guide)
Heavyload Belt
Pathfinder's Kit
Fighter's Kit
Deluxe Dungeoneer's Kit

Above Tech Equipment as needed (BC's are CR 7, GH are CR 13)

Any thoughts or replies?


Blood Claw:
Strength 15
Dexterity 15 (Racial +2)
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 12
Charisma 8

Grey Hunter:
+ 1 Strength at Level 4

Edit 2:


Blood Claw:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency Firearms
Exotic Weapon Proficiency Chainsword
Two Weapon Fighting
Power Attack

Grey Hunter:

Add Rapid Reload from Ultimate Combat