Divine Charge: Channel Positive Energy isn't the best of the paladin's abilities; it's weaker than Lay on Hands, and takes uses of it to work. Basically, it's a weaker burst heal. However, exchanging it for what amounts to a feat (Fleet) that you use when charging and then you drop the -2 penalty to AC as well is not an even exchange (in favour of the Divine Charge). The level 10 benefit to charging seems to attempt to bypass any movement reduction (like slowing from armour), and gives a bonus (probably +3 or +4) to attack and CMB rolls made during the charge. Basically, it incentivises the character to charge in every action with zero penalties.
As for suggestions, I'm going to take some more time to ponder any advise that I might offer. However, if you want to propose suggestions, I might be able to help you to review.
Best wishes!
I appreciate your input.
The only thing I can think of is sacking Divine Initiative for what I previously had and changing it up.
Instead have it take place of Divine Charge and make it a bonus to Initiative checks. Maybe give it an ability that uses Lay on Hands uses to activate, like 2 lay on hands uses to roll two d20s and take the highter.
There haven't been any codified rules or guidelines. An entire chapter of the Advanced Class Guide will actually be exactly what you are looking for...and it comes out in August. :(
I would use the perquisites for a PrC to figure out what character level someone is going to be at each level and place abilities of approximate power to what single class characters would have at that level.
Archetypes are simple exchanges of abilities with similar levels of power that match up with the flavour of the archetype in question. I've done these for my own campaigns, and—while a lot of work—it isn't as hard as you might think.
Thanks for the input.
I understand the basics with archetypes. What are some things you do for making archetypes that helps in the creation process?
Whenever an archetype removes a class feature, it should replace it with another feature gained at the same level. Otherwise you end up creating "empty levels" with no class features at all, as Paizo occasionally has.
I appreciate your insight. Those are helpful.
Is there any other guidelines people follow for making PrC and Archetypes?
There are 2 questions that you must ask about making archetypes and prestige classes.
1) Do I intend for PC's to make use of these classes or just NPC's?
2a) If for PC use: Would I take these classes/ give up other class features for these if I were playing a character? ANSWER TRUTHFULLY.
2b) If not for PC use: What do I need to make encounters challenging or interesting at appropriate levels?
I appreciate the comment. I tend to fail at that when coming up with ideas. I come up with ideas and try and figure out ways that fit the concept. Worthwhile questions to ask for sure.
I wasn't worried. I understand that feeling. I just appreciate all the help. And posting anything on a phone sucks. I hardly post on Facebook on a phone. Computer trumps a phone in that aspect.
Hey all. I've been in the process of creating my own campaign setting (a whole new world; no Aladdin jokes please :P) and I am seeing a need to create some new Prestige classes and archetypes to add flavor.
Is there any specific guidelines our there that would help me in the creation process for prestige classes and archetypes besides "keep them balanced"?
Part of my problem is stuff like:
"What level should I have an ability?"
"How strong/weak should I make the ability?"
I keep having lots of questions on this and I have heard rumors that the Advanced Class Guide will have a system coming out that will help with this, but that doesn't come out till August 2014. I don't want to wait that long.
Generally, the concept is fine. There are quite a few people that find the concept of the Lawful Good paladin to be very restrictive. Conceptually, I like the idea.
Balance-wise, there are some issues...
This was exactly what I was looking for. All your points make perfect sense. I really appreciate it.
The Divine Initiative does seem to make more sense to replace Divine Bond over the mercies. I'll ponder more in how I can change it more to fit replacing Divine Bond. Any suggestions on how to change it up?
As for Aura of Freedom making it a Lay on Hands expenditure makes more sense. How about the extra stuff for allies within 10'? Keep it or get rid of it?
Everything w/ Divine Charge looks balanced as well?
Hmm "Divine Resolve" doesn't fit that well with the flavor of the liberating Paladin.
There are many poisons out there that are used or can be used for enslavement. Poisons that can inhibit, cause sleep/unconsciousness, and paralysis are somewhat common. So it can fall under the liberator paladin theme.
What are your reasons for it not working?
I3igAl wrote:
Maybe you could leave this out and improve Divine initiative.
As I mentioned I'm looking for ways to improve Divine Initiative. Any ideas?
Master of the Dark Triad wrote:
Are you really in love with divine initiative? Even though it'd allow a pally to be CG, is never take this archetype because I wouldn't want to lose my mercies.
I see a liberator paladin in a slave labor camp trying to blend in as just another prisoner but using MERCIES to cure other slave's exhaustion and fatigue at the long days of hard labor. He can't help them much without those mercies.
That's just how I imagine it. Take it how you will.
I appreciate the incite. I felt that way too. That's why I had the alternate version of Divine Initiative that only used 3 mercies allowing for 3 mercies to be taken.
I still think that there are some other things that can be added to Divine Initiative to complete it. Any ideas?
Hey all. I've posted this homebrew archetype on the Homebrew Messageboard and gotten some advice on how to make it better. I'm looking for some more input to fine tune the archetype.
This is my first homebrew so I want to make it the best it can be.
What I'm looking for is this:
Any balancing issues you see and advice on how to make it balanced
Any ideas for new abilities or additions to abilities
General input on the concept and idea
Now there aren't a lot of changes, but there are a some. Here they are.
Liberator Abilities:
The Liberator is a hope to those that are oppressed. A champion against tyranny and slavery. The Liberator is always in the front lines in causes of freedom. They can be seen in various lands leading groups against slavers or helping liberate people from tyrannical rulers.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Class Skills: A Liberator adds Bluff and Escape Artist to her list of class skills. These replace the paladin's Diplomacy class skill.
Divine Resolve(Ex): At 3rd level, a liberator is immune to all poisons. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Health.
Divine Initiative (Su): At 3rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat. Every three levels beyond 3rd, the sacred bonus increases +1 to a maximum of +5 at 15th level.
Starting at level 9, the liberator may expend a use of his Lay on Hands ability to extend this bonus to an addition number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier. This ability replaces the paladin's mercies.
Divine Charge (Ex): The Liberator's willingness to charge into battle to help those in need requires poise and a lack of encumbrance. Upon reaching 4nd level, the liberator can charge an additional 10 feet and doesn't incur the -2 penalty to her AC.
Upon reaching level 10, the liberator can charge equal to double his base speed and adds his Charisma modifier to the attacks or combat maneuvers made during a charge, but not damage. This ability replaces the paladin's Channel Positive Energy abilities.
Divine Bond (Sp): The liberator removes axiomatic, flaming, flaming burst, and merciful weapon special abilities and adds anarchic, shock, shocking burst, and defiant to his available weapon special abilities. Otherwise this acts exactly like the Divine Bond gained by the paladin at level 5.
Aura of Freedom (Su): At 11th level, the liberator acts as though he is continually under the effects of the freedom of movement spell. He also applies his Charisma bonus to all Escape Artist checks and CMB checks to escape grapples. Each ally within 10 feet gains a +4 morale bonus to Escape Artist checks, CMB checks to escape grapples, and saving throws against becoming entangles, paralyzed, or slowed. This ability replaces the paladin's Aura of Justice.
Code of Conduct: The liberator must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a liberator's code requires that he help those in need, respect individual liberty, and punish those who either threaten or curtail personal liberty."
Associates: Same as a standard paladin, except a liberator only accepts henchmen, followers, or cohorts of chaotic good alignment.
Ex-Liberators: A liberator who ceases to be chaotic good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the liberator's mount, bu not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may no progress any further in levels as a liberator. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations, as appropriate.
Divine Initiative is where I'm feeling some additions are needed. I don't know why, but I feel there needs to be one or two higher level abilities added to it. Possibly just a whole new ability. Who knows.
I'm not opposed to revamping Divine Initiative; I've thought of different ways to do this. A variant Divine Initiative ideas was like this:
Divine Initiative Variant:
Divine Initiative (Su): At 3rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat. Every six levels beyond 3rd, the sacred bonus increases +1 to a maximum of +3 at 15th level. This ability replaces the paladin's mercies gained at levels 3, 9, and 15.
Additional abilities could replace the other mercies.
Additions I've thought about adding to Divine Initiative:
At a certain level (haven't determined)add the liberator's Charisma modifier to attack damage rolls
Add the Divine Initiative bonus to the liberator's AC during the rounds it is active
Like I said, I feel there needs to be changes and I have ideas I just can't seem to figure out how to make them blend together cohesively or to come up with new abilities to make it work.
This is what I have and I appreciate any input and advice. Thanks.
I loved the concept of the Runecaster from Forgotten Realms: Player's Guide. Also liked the Master Transmogrifist and Blood Magus from Complete Arcane.
Anyone hear of an updated version or revamp of the Runcaster and Rune system?
So I had some time to think of options to add to Divine Initiative.
I can up with:
At a certain level (haven't determined)add the liberator's Charisma modifier to attack damage rolls
Add the Divine Initiative bonus to the liberator's AC during the rounds it is active
Add the Divine Initiative bonus and Charisma modifier to Lay on Hands healing done during the active rounds (doesn't really fit the model set up though)
I also thought with Divine Charge I could double the critical range for the wielded weapon (not stacking with Imp Crit or keen).
I don't know if the Liberator needs anything more, but those are some of my ideas that could be added.
Class Skills: A Liberator adds Bluff and Escape Artist to her list of class skills. These replace the paladin's Diplomacy class skill.
Divine Resolve(Ex): At 3rd level, a liberator is immune to all poisons. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Health.
Divine Initiative (Su): At 3rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat. Every three levels beyond 3rd, the sacred bonus increases +1 to a maximum of +5 at 15th level.
Starting at level 9, the liberator may expend a use of his Lay on Hands ability to extend this bonus to an addition number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier. This ability replaces the paladin's mercies.
Divine Charge (Ex): The Liberator's willingness to charge into battle to help those in need requires poise and a lack of encumbrance. Upon reaching 4nd level, the liberator can charge an additional 10 feet and doesn't incure the -2 penalty to her AC.
Upon reaching level 10, the liberator can charge equal to double his base speed and adds his Charisma modifier to the attacks or combat maneuvers made during a charge, but not damage. This ability replaces the paladin's heavy armor proficiency and Channel Positive Energy abilities.
Divine Bond (Sp): The liberator removes axiomatic, flaming, flaming burst, and merciful weapon special abilities and adds anarchic, shock, shocking burst, and defiant to his available weapon special abilities. Otherwise this acts exactly like the Divine Bond gained by the paladin at level 5.
Aura of Freedom (Su): At 11th level, the liberator acts as though he is continually under the effects of the freedom of movement spell. He also applies his Charisma bonus to all Escape Artist checks and CMB checks to escape grapples. Each ally within 10 feet gains a +4 morale bonus to Escape Artist checks, CMB checks to escape grapples, and saving throws against becoming entangles, paralyzed, or slowed.
Code of Conduct: The liberator must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a liberator's code requires that he help those in need, respect individual liberty, and punish those who either threaten or curtail personal liberty."
Associates: Same as a standard paladin, except a liberator only accepts henchmen, followers, or cohorts of chaotic good alignment.
Ex-Liberators: A liberator who ceases to be chaotic good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the liberator's mount, bu not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may no progress any further in levels as a liberator. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations, as appropriate.
I feel this is probably the closest to being balanced I've gotten. I still feel that there should be either:
Another ability added (a later ability around level 15 or 18)
Or another addition to Divine Initiative (maybe roll initiative rolls twice and take the better of the two or something else)
I'm at a creative block again. I'd appreciate any input.
I'm sure this is going to be redundant (way to many pages as posts to read them all), but I would love to see a Runecaster w/ Rune system implemented. Similar to the Runecaster PrC from Forgotten Realms 3.5.
I'm a big fan of options, so I'd be fine with replacing features with choices (it's what I did when I redid the hunter seen here, but that's a departure from the source class. It's almost like a qinggong paladin, which isn't necessarily bad. Currently you're at a weird phase where you're between adding options and replacing abilities. And right now, it seems like you're replacing mercies twice. That's not good.
I'd recommend going full on one way or the other. But that's just a single opinion. Also, it's ok to replace abilities with new ones at different levels, but it should be avoided.
Above all, the most important thing is being balanced.
I see what you mean. I'm liking the surge option taking place of mercies. Any ideas for more surge options?
As for Divine Initiative, what abilities do you think it should replace? Channel Positive Energy? An aura as well? It can be diminished to balance with the ability replaced (like only goes up to +3 if replacing heavy armor proficiency and Channel Positive Energy). At this point I'm sick, literally, and can't really put all my thoughts together. Any other suggestions would be helpful.
I don't really have any suggestions for a similar ability.
I just thought of a different ability that could replace Controlled Charge and Divine Initiative.
Divine Initiative:
Divine Initiative (Su): At 2rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat after surprise rounds. This increases to +2 at level 6, +3 at level 9, +4 at level 15, and +5 at level 18. This ability replaces the paladin's heavy armor proficiency and mercies gained at level 6 and 15.
Surge (Su): At 2nd level a liberator is granted a surge of divine energy to specific attacks or abilities. This surge may enhance the liberator's ability to ride evil from the world.
At 2nd level, the liberator can select from the following initial surges.
Distance: Double the liberator's charge distance.
Control: When charging, the liberator doesn't take the -2 penalty to his AC.
Mercy: The liberator may choose a mercy, from the initial list, that would apply to his Lay on Hands ability.
At 6th level, a liberator adds the following surges to the list of those that can be selected.
Critical: The liberator can double his critical range with one weapon for the during surprise rounds, the round after surprise rounds, or the first round after a charge. This can be taken up to 3 times. Each time it applies to a different round of combat listed.
Mercy: The liberator may choose a mercy, from the list available at level 6, that would apply to his Lay on Hands ability.
Etc....
Surges can be selected at levels 2, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18. These replace the paladin's mercies gained at levels 3, 9, 12, and 18.
I'm sure you get the idea now.
What do you think Davick? I literally thought of this and put it together in like 5 minutes. So I know it's not going to be balanced. I was just putting my idea into written form.
I thought it helped in being able to customize the character more. The mercies would probably have to be limited to specific levels for access, but I thought this idea created a character worth playing that balances out for the lack of mercies.
The reasoning behind this change is that the Liberator is an attack first, help later champion. He gets rid of all potential danger before he helps those he has freed or "liberated". Going with this idea he gains several abilities early that are combat oriented and I felt that it would overpower the early levels to have both offensive abilities and the defensive/healing abilities. That is the only real reason.
Say that both Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy were gained at the normal levels the Liberator would receive a total numbers of 12 abilities by level 5 (3 @ level 1, 3 @ level 2, 3 @ level 3, 2 @ level 4, and 1 @ level 5).
Even being chaotic, I don't think any paladin should be better at lying than at making friends.
That is true. I got the idea from the paladin of freedom variant from Unearthed Arcana. It gains Bluff for Diplomacy. Maybe I can stipulate in the code of conduct about it to help narrow what bluff can be used for. Cause I can see bluff coming in handy for things like feinting and such.
Davick wrote:
Avoid calling divine health the same thing since it does something different. Divine Resolve maybe?
I thought so too. I just couldn't think of what to change it to that made it relevant. I like Divine Resolve. Good sound to it and it fits. Thanks.
Davick wrote:
On divine initiative, what does first rounds of combat mean? Should it say, the first round of combat after any surprise round. I also recommend against the bonus going above +5. (the extra charge distance ability I mentioned would synergize really well with this ability). It's a big bonus, but I don't know if it's useful enough to make it on par with mercies. Currently, I don't really have any suggestions for a similar ability. I'll have to think on it.
That is what I intended to be. I have a habit of wording things that makes sense to me, but doesn't convey my intent. I'll reword that. As for the not going higher than +5, I mentioned an option in my first post.
I have thought about possibly keeping some of the mercies and leapfrogging the Divine Initiative bonuses to be levels 3, 9, and 15 while mercies would be gained at levels 6, 12, and 18.
What do you think? It would only go to a +3 bonus and gain some of the mercies to boot.
Davick wrote:
Aura of Freedom should probably replace another aura and be gained at that level. It's an odd ability that makes one immune to magic constriction but not mundane. A freedom of movement effect though would need to be fairly high level. 11th level replacing Aura of Justice would probably be ok. It's also an Aura they could lose without hurting the flavor.
I thought about switching it out for an aura, but couldn't decide which one to get ride of. I like the idea of having the freedom of movement spell effect instead. I think the bonus to allies w/in 10' is still good. Probably would keep that.
Davick wrote:
That reminds me. If you're going to remove the ability to heal themselves, another BIG nerf, you should make healing allies easier. A move action, or even swift.
Why did you make this change? What was your thought process?
That's another typo. I put the text in quick. There are no changes to Lay on Hands except that it is gained at level 4.
Arcanemuses wrote:
Charisma modifier replaces bonus to attack and damage when making a charge. Just a thought.
So replace the bonuses to attack and damage for Cha mod to charges? With that I could see lowering the replaced mercies to just a single mercy (maybe 2) replaced? Then keep the rest of the mercies? Or was there another idea?
Axial wrote:
Personally, I'd just swap out the axiomatic divine bond weapon quality for anarchic, change every instance of "lawful" class features to chaotic, and call it a day. No need to reinvent the wheel.
But that's just me.
I forgot to put that in as well. Didn't plan on changing Divine Bond at all except for that. So many little mistakes made. :(
I really appreciate all the insight and help. This is helping a lot.
The Liberator is a hope to those that are oppressed. A champion against tyranny and slavery. The Liberator is always in the front lines in causes of freedom. They can be seen in various lands leading groups against slavers or helping liberate people from tyrannical rulers.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Class Skills: A Liberator adds Bluff and Escape Artist to her list of class skills. These replace the paladin's Diplomacy class skill.
Controlled Charge (Ex): The Liberator's willingness to charge into battle to help those in need requires poise and a lack of encumbrance. Upon reaching 2nd level, the liberator can charge without incurring the -2 penalty to her AC. This ability replaces the paladin's heavy armor proficiency.
Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a liberator is immune to all poisons. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Health.
Divine Initiative (Su): At 3rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat. Every three levels beyond 3rd, the sacred bonus increases +1 to a maximum of +6 at 18th level. This ability replaces the paladin's mercies.
Lay on Hands (Su): Because of the liberator attacks first then helps those freed, starting at 4th level he gains the ability to heal others.
Aura of Freedom (Su): At 6th level, the liberator becomes immune to magical means of restriction and applies his Charisma bonus to all Escape Artist checks and CMB checks to escape grapples. Each ally within 10 feet gains a +4 morale bonus to Escape Artist checks, CMB checks to escape grapples, and saving throws against becoming entangles, paralyzed, or slowed.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): When a liberator reaches 6th level, he can channel positive energy.
Code of Conduct: The liberator must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a liberator's code requires that he help those in need, respect individual liberty, and punish those who either threaten or curtail personal liberty."
Associates: Same as a standard paladin, except a liberator only accepts henchmen, followers, or cohorts of chaotic good alignment.
Ex-Liberators: A liberator who ceases to be chaotic good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the liberator's mount, bu not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may no progress any further in levels as a liberator. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations, as appropriate.
I feel this balances it a little more. Some minor mistakes were fixed as well. Tell me what you think.
This seems like a pretty drastic nerfing of the standard paladin.
Divine Grace for no charge penalty? That's like trading a ferrari for a honda.
Mercies to a surprise round bonus. About equal I guess.
Reduced lay on hands for increased channel? But fewer lay on hands means fewer channels anyway.
Quite understandable on those observations. Like I said, my first ever homebrew. I knew there were going to be some balancing issues.
Any suggestions on what to add or change to help balance it a bit more?
Here are some thoughts I had.
Get rid of heavy armor proficiency and replace it with the Controlled Charge ability (making it a level 1 or still level 2 ability now). Reasoning could include the heavy armor is incumbering for movement and allows the liberator more control when charging into groups.
Looking at my notes I typed that in wrong. The Controlled Charge was a balancing ability for the reduced lay on hands, while Divine Grace was still gained at level 2.
Looking at it closer it makes no sense to reduce the effective liberator level of lay on hands and channel positive energy since he's already being penalized for taking it 2 levels later.
So I've always thought that there should be an archetype for a Chaotic Good Paladin. So I've tried to make a balanced archetype. Being that this is my first homebrew go easy on me :), but I would like suggestions on balancing issues you see or suggestions on possible improvements. Here we go.
The Liberator (Archetype)
Spoiler:
The Liberator is a hope to those that are oppressed. A champion against tyranny and slavery. The Liberator is always in the front lines in causes of freedom. They can be seen in various lands leading groups against slavers or helping liberate people from tyrannical rulers.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Class Skills: A Liberator adds Bluff and Escape Artist to her list of class skills. These replace the paladin's Diplomacy class skill.
Controlled Charge (Ex): The Liberator willing charges into enemies to help those in need. Upon reaching 2nd level, the liberator can charge without incurring the -2 penalty to her AC. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Grace.
Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a liberator is immune to all poisons. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Health.
Divine Initiative (Su): At 3rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat. Every three levels beyond 3rd, the sacred bonus increases +1 to a maximum of +6 at 18th level. This ability replaces the paladin's mercies.
Lay on Hands (Su): Because of the liberator attacks first then helps those freed, starting at 4th level he gains the ability to heal others. This functions as the paladin's lay on hands ability, except he treats his paladin level as -2 when determining the amount of uses per day he can use. This ability replaces the paladin's lay on hands.
Aura of Freedom (Su): At 6th level, the liberator becomes immune to magical means of restriction and applies his Charisma bonus to all Escape Artist checks and CMB checks to escape grapples. Each ally within 10 feet gains a +4 morale bonus to Escape Artist checks, CMB checks to escape grapples, and saving throws against becoming entangles, paralyzed, or slowed.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): When a liberator reaches 6th level, he can channel positive energy. This acts just like the standard paladin's channel positive energy, except he treats his paladin levels as -2 when determining his effective cleric level when channeling. This ability replaces the paladin's channel positive energy.
Code of Conduct: The liberator must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a liberator's code requires that he help those in need, respect individual liberty, and punish those who either threaten or curtail personal liberty."
Associates: Same as a standard paladin, except a liberator only accepts henchmen, followers, or cohorts of chaotic good alignment.
Ex-Liberators: A liberator who ceases to be chaotic god, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the liberator's mount, bu not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may no progress any further in levels as a liberator. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations, as appropriate.
Here are some of my thought processes for this archetype.
A liberator is a paladin that is willing to do whatever it takes to help her cause (within reason of course). She is impulsive. She will charge into any situation if someone is in danger. She is first to react to situations.
Going with the freedom theme, Aura of Freedom felt like it fit well. Most of the concept came with blending the typical aura structure with the Freedom variant channeling heal effect.
I have thought about possibly keeping some of the mercies and leapfrogging the Divine Initiative bonuses to be levels 3, 9, and 15 while mercies would be gained at levels 6, 12, and 18.
The Returning quality to a thrown weapon brings it back at the end of your turn so you only get one "throw" of the weapon...no iterative attacks.
You need Quickdraw and multiple thrown weapons to be able to throw more than one attack per round.
I would not bother with dipping into Divine Hunter for just throwing a weapon
I would just go straight Fighter...Dual Wield Throwing Axes...put returning on one of them.
have a high Strength and if this is a home game sweet talk your DM into allowing the 3.5 Brutal Throw Feat where you use your Strength instead of Dex for hurled weapons attack bonus...not broken as it is a feat tax and you already use strength for damage, just don't need to have an uber dex then
I've looked at multiple ways of doing this (levels in barbarian and straight fighter). Right now I'm really liking this set up:
Superstitious and Urban Barbarian 6/Fighter 3 (since we're level 9 in the current campaign).
With this setup I get to initiate first, attack twice while charging in, gain a strength while raging (without losing AC), and can add elemental damage to attacks (we fight some weird custom elementals). I've also been pretty set on duel wielding warhammers. I'm debating whether to take straight fighter, two-weapon warrior, or weapon master. The two-weapon fighter can decrease the penalties from duel wielding while being able to wield a one handed weapon.
+2 strength.
Use strength rather than dexterity for thrown weapon attack rolls.
+10' range increment for thrown weapons.
Your thrown weapons teleport back to your belt immediately after each attack is rolled.
Combined with the feat Quick Draw, this would make pretty potent thrown-weapon attacks. Assuming normal character wealth, it would use up about half the wealth of a 9th level character.
Would the Belt's increased distance ability stack with the ability from the barbarian hurler ability?
Lucky for me we have an item creation wizard that helps us make items so the cost is drastically reduced. :)
I believe for the druids neutrality is a must considering all (as far as I know) nature deities have more of a neutral mentality due to their view of nature in balance. They usually don't take one side or the other on the issue as nature is both death and life in balance.
Thinking about it, how would the Ricochet Hammer be in this build? Looks like I could take the Vital Strike idea and still be able to utilize the iterative attacks from gaining levels.
Thanks for the input so far. My DM, so far in the campaign we're in now, allows us to add multiple abilities to various slots so I could combine the blinkbelt and belt of mighty hurling abilities as long as I pay the appropriate costs.
I'll have to think on how I want to build him. The Vital Strike to help on damage is an intriguing idea that I might like. That kind of fits how I was thinking of making him (Wield 2 weapons and throw occasionally to disrupt/engage).
Looking through other archetypes there is the Hurler Barbarian that could also be help (increased Str, range increment, plus rage powers for throwing). Looking at it I thought taking 6 lvls of Barbarian Hurler to be able to get the Hurling Charge, Deadly Accuracy, and Surprise Accuracy Rage Powers. Hurling Charge is the rage power I'd really want, but the other 2 could be switched possibly for Powerful Blow or something else.
Just a note: once you hit iterative attacks (at least, once you get a third iterative attack) Quick Draw is a must-have for thrown weapons.
I have to admit I haven't really looked at the archetypes... because the bits I did look at were unappealing: typically, you lose too much with them, imo.
You might find Throw Anything to be useful (for when you run out of weapons, or if you decide to use splash weaponry much).
I've never heard the term iterative attacks before. All the campaigns I've been in have been pretty cut and dry campaigns and characters. This is the first character that I've had/seen with thrown weapons(besides daggers or bombs).
I’ve been looking at building a character that is mainly a melee character with the ability to disrupt combat by throwing his weapon(s). I’ve looked at several ideas and have my mind set on a:
Dwarf Divine Hunter/Fighter
I’m stuck on a few things:
1)How many levels of Divine Hunter to take. I’m looking at as few as 5 levels to get the divine bond so I can add seeking, distance, or returning to my weapon. More levels (like to level 8) will allow me to add more options from the divine bond list to my weapon, but I feel it might hamper on possible feats that could optimize my ideas for the character.
2)What archetype of fighter to take (if any at all). Right now I’m looking at either the Two-Weapon Fighter (duel-wield warhammers or similar) or Weapon Master (specialize on just the warhammer or similar).
Just wanting some help on what I could do with the character idea. Any ideas or help would be appreciated.
I’ve been looking at building a character that is mainly a melee character with the ability to disrupt combat by throwing his weapon(s). I’ve looked at several ideas and have my mind set on a:
Dwarf Divine Hunter/Fighter
I’m stuck on a few things:
1)How many levels of Divine Hunter to take. I’m looking at as few as 5 levels to get the divine bond so I can add seeking, distance, or returning to my weapon. More levels (like to level 8) will allow me to add more options from the divine bond list to my weapon, but I feel it might hamper on possible feats that could optimize my ideas for the character.
2)What archetype of fighter to take (if any at all). Right now I’m looking at either the Two-Weapon Fighter (duel-wield warhammers or similar) or Weapon Master (specialize on just the warhammer or similar).
Just wanting some help on what I could do with the character idea. Any ideas or help would be appreciated.
