Tilt's page

Hmm. You're not going to do a lot of damage. Your to hit will also be really low.

Also, you're going to run into the classic problem of two-weapon fighting, only worse. Magic weapons are expensive, and running around with non-magic weapons at high levels is going to be problematic, both because it'll lower your CMB, and because you won't be able to punch through damage reduction.

Not really sure what to say in the way of advice. But the above would be the problms to look out for.

Should Weapon Expertise be Combat Expertise?

Hrm... well, I can make up for some of the damage via an agile rapier, but the issues with a low attack are compounded by the 3/4 BAB progression... It's possible with the level dip and some feats to keep more reasonable to-hit with combat manuvers, at least, which would mean eschewing damage feats entirely. Alternatively... perhaps using sunder could be an option, as it functions as a more permanent disarm, makes use of the damage feats, and can be used to lower AC by chipping away at armor.

I could always eschew any hopes of dealing /any/ real damage and take feats like Dazzling Display or Improved Whip Mastery instead, to still have plenty of action-options... but then there's no real point in going Arcane Duelist at all, and I'd be specializing in CMs that, save the whip proficiency, would be strictly better to do as a fighter/barbarian or such.

Looking back over it, Fury's Snare can entangle, and, being a caster, I could always eschew range if need be, to free up the feat Quickdraw was taking (as well as use heirloom weapon for something like a whip with +2 to trip or such).

Ah, and yes, Combat Expertise is what was meant there. Speaking of, if going CMs, I should really take that earlier-- can always retrain the feat if/when dipping into Lore Warden to get it for free later.

In any case, I appreciate the earnest answers-- looks like I need to take a long look into finding ways to get more reasonable to-hit, first and foremost. From there, it's a matter of figuring out if/how damage support might be accomplished without losing non-spell utility entirely by, say, going the tried and true archer bard route...

I've been putting together a character for a new campaign, the party to include a Guisarme Paladin, Longbow Ranger, Musket Gunslinger, and a Falchion Barbarian. Now, my initial thinking for going Bard was to add some support and a bunch of non-blasting magic, but the way everyone else was so defined by their singular weapon choice led me to a very different style of character...

Zelia: Half-Elf Bard (Arcane Duelist)
[20-Point Buy]
STR: 10
DEX: 16+2
CON: 10
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 15

Traits:
Reactionary: +2 to Initiative
Bardic Knack: +2 to Bard caster level (cannot exceed player level)
Heirloom Weapon: Net (Proficiency)

Drawbacks: (Several, because roleplay!)

Feats:
Lv. 1 - Skill Focus (Use Magic Device)
Lv. 1 - Arcane Strike
Lv. 1 - Weapon Expertise
Lv. 2 - Combat Casting
Lv. 3 - Quick Draw
Lv. 5 - Piranha Strike
Lv. 6 - Disruptive
Lv. 7 - Deadly Aim
Lv. 9 - Vital Strike
Lv. 10 - Spellbreaker
Lv. 11 - Discordant Voice

The basic idea is to make use of mostly finesse weapons (to lessen MAD), using a wide array of weapons, rather than feats, to remain flexible. A rapier keeps me needing feats like Improved Whip Mastery to make AoOs, a whip alleviates the rapier's lack of reach and allows for disarm/trip attempts without risk, a bow averts an over-reliance on melee, a rapier with daggers gives some ranged attacking without losing AoOs, and the net is admittedly a bit of a sarcastic retort to others' BFF-for-life heirloom weapons in that it's not even quite a tertiary weapon. Still, entangling is nice, and targeting touch somewhat AC balances out the fact that it's a non-finesse weapon-- mostly, though, I see it as insult to injury for tripped foes stuck in a grease spell.

So, with that, I end up with what looks like a pretty strange sort of skirmisher, who looks to be best served moving every turn and never really making full round attacks. Picking off weakened foes so the weapon-focus sorts can fry bigger fish, or softening off those tougher enemies with combat maneuvers without letting them make any full-round attacks of their own seem to be the name of the game, with spells mostly focused on buffing allies and battlefield control... and perhaps the occasional 'save or join the party' spell, because what self-respecting bard can resist trying to charm that dragon?

As for actual spells, by level 11, I would have something like...
0 - Spark, Mage Hand, Ghost Sound, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mending
1 - Sleep [Replace with Hideous Laughter at 5], Grease, Charm Person, Silent Image, Dazzling Blade, Cure Light Wounds
2 - Heroism, Suggestion, Glitterdust/Pyrotechnics/Blistering Invictive, Invisibility/Mirror Image/Bladed Dash
3 - Confusion, Charm Monster, Haste, Slow
4 - Dominate Person, Dimension Door, Wall of Sound/Communal Phantom Steed
(Estimating-- definitely open to suggestions, and I may have some extra spells from the CHA modifier, thinking of it...)

Past that point, I was considering a 3 level dip into Lore Warden (Fighter archetype) for 3 feats and a +2 to combat manuver BAB, to make up for Bard's 3/4 BAB progression a bit. The first feat taken would likely be something like Lingering Performance or Harmonic Spell, to make up for lost Bardic Performance rounds. The loss of Greater Penetrating Strike doesn't much matter when I lack Weapon Focus, spending one feat (or a few favored class bonuses) can keep up the bardic performance rounds, and delaying level 5/6 spells doesn't hurt too terribly much-- particularly with arcane bond's extra spell/day.

On the bright side, I'd get the feats and bonus to make use of trip/disarm a lot more heavily almost immediately, to keep from needing to take specializations, on the other, I'm not certain of how well things mesh like that... perhaps a two level dip just to get the 3 bonus feats, or dip into something like Swashbuckler instead (I can retrain weapon finesse for a feat)... Improved Critical instead may be worthwhile just for the rapier's high crit-range to keep pace in damage...

As you perhaps can tell, this is where I get pretty lost. I don't want to lose more than three levels of bard if possible, for the +4 inspire courage, and I'd like keep at least rapier, whip, and shortbow all useful throughout the game if possible-- be that through damage, combat maneuvers, or, more likely, some mix of the two.

---

That all said, I'm well-aware that it's probably a bit ridiculous for me to expect a need for planning past 11 from the onset, so I'm actually a bit more curious to hear how people feel about those first 11 levels-- is the lack of combat maneuver feats problematic? Would dazzling display or such add more utility? Am I overlooking something in terms of damage feats for being 'skirmishy'? I'm sure that this idea can work, but I've definitely not played enough Pathfinder yet to assume my theorycrafting's going to be flawless with such an atypical concept.

Aaaaanywhos, sorry to make such an eye-bleeding wall-of-text of the whole idea, and thanks just for reading, actually. After reading a few interesting threads here, it was looking like a nice place to ask about such things-- though excuse if I'm not 100% familiar with any particular etiquette of-yet. ^^"