Thrillba's page

I have a lvl 17 two blade ranger.

He is using a katana and a sickle.

I have 4 attacks with my katana and 3 with my sickle.
My katana's bonus' is 23,18,13,8
My sickle's bonus' is 22,17,12

My question is, If i make a full attack action - how do I actually attack.

first attack with katana at 23
second attack with sickle at at 22 or 17
third attack with katana at 18 or 13

There's a description that includes 'weakened and numb' in the roper's entry. Those are not intended to be ongoing conditions. The effects and damage are fully described in that sentence.

PRD wrote:

A creature struck by a strand is numbed and weakened by the strange material, and must make a DC 25 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of Strength damage.

So weakened and numb means they lose 1d6 points of str damage - why even say that in the listing then?

And that is only one aspect, not two, I still think that it means something else.

I finally found out that weakened meant half damage, but there is nothing about numbed anywhere.

What does it mean?

Thank you every one.

Thrillba wrote:

So your actually only attacking with 1 claw?

Usually it's one attack per limb.

A creature with four claw attacks generally has four limbs, each limb has some claws. It attacks four times, one for each claw attack.

Think of "Claw" as a claw attack, not an individual shaft of bone sticking out of a paw. A paw might have four claws, but usually it's one swipe with that limb to deliver a claw attack.

Whatever monster you mentioned above has four claw attacks and one bite attack.

That is correct, its a girallon,

So I attack with 4 claws, and get a separate attack roll and damage roll for each?

4 claw attacks at +34 to-hit and 2d6+14 damage with a 19-20 crit threat range.

1 bite attack at +29 to-hit and 3d6+9 damage with a 20 crit threat range.

You need to make a full attack to get all those attacks. If you do so, you're making 5 attack rolls. Four for the claws, one for the bite.

So your actually only attacking with 1 claw?

I am a little confused about a creatures attacks.

Here is how the attack reads.

Melee 4 claws +34 (2d6+14/19–20) and bite +29 (3d6+9)

Does this mean that every time I can

A. make 4 attacks at +34 and roll 2d6 +14 and 1 attack at +29 and roll 3d6+9
B. make 4 attacks at +34 and roll 8d6 + 48 and 1 attack at +29 and roll 3d6 + 9
C. make 1 attack at +34 and roll 2d6 + 14 and 1 attack at +29 and roll 3d6 + 9
D. make a full attack and get the 4 claws with separate rolls and damages, and a bite.

While I love the sentiment behind the touch AC thing, and I really like that they made a gun based core class, the touch AC attack really doesn't make much sense. Touch AC vs. adamatine plate or ancient dragon hide? Kevlar is no way as good as either for those two materials. It should have been more like 19-20 crit x4, or something like that.

Here are my proposed fixes to this mess,

Someone suggested option 2 but I can't remember the name - Thanks
the last one has yours moon glum as an option. Thanks for the suggestion

1. Burst 2 around the target - touch AC, burst 3&4 around the target - Flat Footed AC, burst 5, 6, etc - Normal AC

2. Always Flat footed AC - explosion damage - roll an 8 on damage - roll it again - keep rolling until you do not roll an 8.

3. Normal AC - Add 1d<weapon, so on a revolver you would roll a d8 and a d6, or 18-20 Crit x4

My archer must not have been doing something right. He has an oath bow and the most damage he can do - with a full out attack is 1d8+4 per attack.

Are you guys going straight archer or did anyone go into arcane archer.

I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne and the party is now 14th level. The gunslinger is in no way over powered. He is carrying 1 rifle and 3 revolvers. He can get 2 shots off in a round, dropping the weapons and then 2 more the next round and then spend some time reloading the next couple of rounds. The bleed ability is nice especially since the gunslinger doesn't get that many attacks.

The archer gets 5 attacks each round and does much more damage. (That is counting boots of speed.)

Please play the gunslinger as is for a few games and then see what happens. I thought it was overpowered too until the first game session. They just don't get that many attacks to cause the 'over powered' cry.

Try a gunslinger with revolver's.

12 shots before a reload, and let me ask this, is each cartridge a reload or does he have 1 reload per gun?

Nope, an archer can't roll a 2 and do small amounts of damage at close range.

Can a gunslinger roll a 2 against a creature more than 30' away and still hit reliably for his small amounts of damage?

Everything I've seen implies that a gunslinger trades raw power for versatility and options.

The crux of your argument for why they're overpowered is that they can always hit within 30'. This is to make them on par with straight archers, as well as because it makes sense. It should always be against touch AC in my opinion, but I concede that limiting it is a good thing for balance.

Is magic missile over powered? It can always hit for small amounts of damage at 230 feet at level 13.

yes - a gunslinger can hit for that damage at more than 30 feet, he just needs a rifle of some kind, there are guns with 80' increments - same as the archer - almost - and can still go against touch ac.

With magic missile there are still chances to miss - arcane spell failure and spell resist.

What I am going to propose to my gunslinger can be fixed by adding one word. Half. I am going to make it against touch ac when he is half of his first distance away from the target. This makes him have to get in CLOSE in order to hit. This will still give him the power, but keep things on an even keel.

I am not saying he is op because he can't miss - I am saying he is op ... well, not so much op as just broken - because the only way he can miss is by rolling a 1. There is no room to maneuver there.

So use monsters with high Touch ACs?

Or ones that he *does not want* to be within 30' of?

Or things that fly further than 30' away and shoot at him with bows?

Or use Blur / Displacement?

Or sunder his weapons with a barbarian breaker?

Or use greater invisibility?

Or don't have 15 minute work days so he runs out of Grit? You know, one big encounter to start the day out (and to use up lots of Grit), two small ones, then another big one. From what I remember, he needs to use up Grit to load as a free action.

Or use any other myriad ways to counter it?

That still does not address the fact that he is broken.

An archer can do that easily at level 7. This guy needs to be 6 levels higher to do that.
Not overpowered. Touch AC is the bone thrown to them to make them compete with archers.

Yes an archer can do that at 7, and possibly more damage at 13, but can he roll a 2 and do it?

Kolokotroni wrote:

Everyone saw it coming, the question is how much damage does the gunslinger do when compared to an archer with a bow? The answer is almost always considerably less. So sure the gunslinger always hits, but a hit doesnt mean much if you are doing relatively little damage.

I don't really buy that because of their Dex --> Damage ability. Because they can add their dex mod to damage, they're likely to hit just as hard, if not harder, than a composite bow. All they will lack are the fighter only damage boosts such as weapon specialization and training. Those fighter boosts add a decent amount of extra damage, but the gunslinger will still hit very hard without them. The archer will do more damage (but miss more), but not "considerably" more.

This is my point - they cannot miss - how often do you roll a 1 compared to all of the other numbers. There is a 1 in 20 chance that it will fall.

So the possibility to have a normal MISS has been taken away.

A gunslinger with a +22/+17/+12 for their normal attack will never miss if going against touch ac

If he does a full out attack he gets one more and then the stats are
+20/+15/+10/+11

He has another attack that can really do damage if he crits with his first and hits with the other two - dead eye I believe. This uses his BAB but still - going against touch ac is like hitting a naked homeless guy in the free city - its easy

That would be 6d8's plus 21.

I have checked all of my creatures and none of them have a touch over 12 - so to state the obvious again - he will never miss.

That takes all of the fun out of the job - the archer has a much higher chance to miss - thats why he gets the extra damage. - the gunslinger can't miss. Thats what seems broke to me - he doesn't do too much damage at one time - but he ALWAYS does damage.

But if they just play it safe and

Everyone saw it coming, the question is how much damage does the gunslinger do when compared to an archer with a bow? The answer is almost always considerably less. So sure the gunslinger always hits, but a hit doesnt mean much if you are doing relatively little damage.

Relatively little damage?

try 32 on the very bottom side of damage - if he rolls all 1's with the 4d8's that he uses
and 84 damage on the top side - he has holy bullets

What gets me is the fact that they cannot miss.
My guy has +22 on his first attack

he has to roll a 1 to miss, and that makes the odds stacked

I think that the gunslinger is very OP. The fact that in the first increment of range they hit against touch AC instead of regular is crazy.

I have some creatures in my campaign that have a 33 ac. Their touch is 11. We are level 13 and with an increment of 20 feet, he will NEVER miss.

I have made him shoot at flat footed ac which is your total minus your Dex, and he still hits like crazy.

Whats the deal - did no one see this coming as far as touch ac?

I don't mind spending the 5.00 bucks for the different parts of the campaign, I actually believe that price to be worth the content, but is there any way to get all of the Worm Food parts of the Dragon magazines instead of buying the entire magazine?

The first one was only 3 pages.