Thomas Koehler's page

Reading the argument above, I think in the situation under debate the dex bonus should be applied.

Instead I would now apply the DC 10 + spell level concentration check for casting spells while mounted as per the casting while mounted rules for the cleric and the mage.

Casting Spells While Mounted: You can cast a spell normally if your mount moves up to a normal move (its speed) either before or after you cast. If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you're casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running (quadruple speed), you can cast a spell when your mount has moved up to twice its speed, but your concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level).

I would even argue that clinging to the rider AND being 30 m in the air DC 15 + spell level concentration check is an option to consider.

@Diego:
1. Would you add the squeeze penalty to the usual mounted combat modifiers?
2. I was unfortunately unaware that in D&D 3.5 and not Pathfinder the dex bonus is also lost when the target is grappling someone other than the attacker

It was a camel not a horse...

Back to the general discussion:
As I understand the rules there are two sides to the coin. Either you deny a dex bonus or you loose it.

Denied dex bonus:
1. The attacker is invisible
2. The target is blinded
3. The target is cowering (e.g. from fear spell)
4. The target is flat-footed
5. The target is helpless (e.g. due to being paralyzed)
6. The target is pinned
7. The target is stunned

Lost dex bonus:
1. Running w/o the Run feat
2. Squeezing through a gap less than half your space's width
3. Off-balance when fighting underwater after a failed Swim check
4. Using Acrobatics to cross a narrow surface or uneven ground
5. When climbing
6. Attacker makes a successful feint
7. Attacker is using certain feats (e.g. disengaging shot)
8. Attacker has certain class abilities (e.g. prescient attack)

In D&D 3.5 (not Pathfinder!) the dex bonus is also lost when the target is grappling someone other than the attacker. This is what I was using as a reference. Especially, since they were flying high above ground (and the grapple variant pinned also denies the dex bonus).

Whoever has ridden on a motor cycle behind the driver knows that holding tight requires effort and aims at both not falling off and actively clinging together.

So all variants in the debate so far (grapple, squeeze and pinned) would have all triggered that the dex bonus was not applicable.

Thomas Koehler wrote:

Rescuing the all prisoners in the adventure the mage was given access to a cauldron of resurrection for free which he rejected leaving the table without a word…

Sad, I hope he will accept his character death.

I stay of my opinion: the characters are squeezed. Or count as grappled if you prefer.
Neither denies you dex bonus to AC, they only reduce it.

On Squeezing the rules state: To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space's width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can't attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

To clarify the situation I faced as a DM:
Two people rode a camel. The cleric cast a airwalk on the camel to cross a ravine. The mage was sitting behind the cleric. I ruled that they were in a grapple not to fall down. However they were allowed to let go of the grapple to cast and act. As the relevant concentration check is DC 5 I skipped it for simplicity.

In midair they were attacked. The NPC leader in the fight was JAMIRAH Lamia matriarch rogue 8 (Pathfnder RPG Bestiary 2 175) from the Shifting Sands adventure). As the PC was obviously casting several high damage AE spells, the NPC group leader ordered his two followers to also shout at the caster. In round one both followers missed and the lamia hastened the group. In round two both followers hit with the heavy crossbows and the lamia hit 4 times among one was a crit.

Going below 0 to -12 the caster dropped nearly 30 meters. The cleric followed 2 round later :P

However, as the cleric had a ring of feather fall he survived the drop and stabilized at -7.

Rescuing the all prisoners in the adventure the mage was given access to a cauldron of resurrection for free which he rejected leaving the table without a word…

When a PC is clinged to a rider on a mount behind the saddle, does that PC still have her dex bonus when hit by a NPC rogue's arrow?

In other words: Would the rogue NPC cause sneak attack damage?