Technormous's page

we werent here long ago when you got bored of this topic. I found it through google. On this thread were a lot of opinions but no official rule definitevely killing the issue of the advanced simple template. This is the reason i necroed it. whereas many of the opinions expressed were correct, the other side happened to be wrong but with only opinions weighing against it. I found the official rule that puts the nail in the coffin and definitively proved it and even myself wrong, and I posted it, so that much is new. Im sorry that this has inconvenieced you, but if you know of a better thread, perhaps you could post a link to it rather than condescending to people who arent as familiar with these forum topics as you are.

Paizo Inc..
"Driving a wooden stake through a helpless vampire's heart instantly slays it (this is a full-round action). However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the head is also severed and anointed with holy water."

also stated there. its not drowning, its immersion in running water for 3 to 4 consecutive rounds or 2 consecutive rounds in daylight.

No need to cut off a Vampire's head to kill them, a simple stake or drowning will suffice. Even if you do cut of their head Resurrection (and therefore Wish) will be sufficient to revive them. Only if the body has been completely destroyed would you need a second wish to recreate the body.

That's what the vampires want you to think

4. No. there doesn't seem to be any effect like that. back in AD&D 2nd edition there were things like True Dweomers which were very ritualistic over the top powerful magic which required rare and exotic components "unicorn blood and slaad teslacoils", unusual conditions like "a day without a night and a night without a day", and important locations like "the first of the first men" but those were in the old days. when imaginary real men were REAL imaginary real men and munchkins powergamers were only partially tolerated and people played characters in the same room with their GM, and the crumbs of the first pringles were trod underfoot and stamped deep into the carpet.

is it Toreador? it's Toreador isn't it. no jk.

1. Wish: "can remove damage and afflictions" so i'd think yes. but...

it can be used to "duplicate any non-sorcerer or wizard spells of 6th level or less" of which Raise Dead is one:

Raise Dead (CLR 5): "a creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect cannot be raised by this spell"

but also can specifically be used to duplicate Resurrection, which can bring a creature back to life, so long as it has been dead less than or equal to 10 years per caster level, which would be the Wish caster's caster level in this case.

Resurrection (CLR 7): "condition of the remains is not a factor", however, "you can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed...undead creatures can't be resurrected"

so... yes but you have to stake it and cut off its head first, then wish the body back together, then cast another wish to bring it back to life again.

Limited Wish: duplicate non-sorcerer spell of 5th level or lower, which brings you back to raise dead. so not Limited Wish.

2. No. but it could make an umbrella. (opinion)

3. No. but if you could other vampires will laugh at you because they can't take you "sireously" (oh my sides) (opinion)

4. What? Like a Toreador? or a do you mean like a dogpire? i'm sorry I don't understand the question.

Someone break it down for me. Is there a mistake on d20pfsrd.com, or discrepancy between it and the official rules somewhere that I need to correct?

Yes.

According to Core Rulebook, 5th Printing, November 2011, pg 63, it no longer says "Heavy Horse" it just says "usually a Horse".

i am searching the PRD. so far i have found several relevant rules texts but nothing as to the actual question "Does the paladin add the Simple Advanced Template to his mount" except where it says he gets a "Heavy Horse" in the paladin entry and nothing contradicting it. Also, i found two forum threads full opinions and people talking down to me like i ought to know better on what is clearly a divisive subject.

However, according to Bestiary 1, 3rd Printing, September 2011, pg 117 in the listing for Horse, it has in bold at the bottom "The stats above are for a typical riding horse, called by some, a 'light horse'. Some horses are larger and heartier, bred for labor, such as pulling plows or carriages. These horeses are called 'heavy horses' and gain the following adjustments to the base statistics detailed above. Heavy Horse. A Heavy Horse gains the advance simple template...." which clearly states the heavy horse gets the Simple Advanced Template. Challenge Accepted! and Defeated! BAM!

But i eat my own hat because according to Core Rulebook, 5th Printing, November 2011, pg 63, it no longer says "Heavy Horse" it just says "usually a Horse" therefore d20pfsrd may wish to update this.

thus answering the question as to Paizo's intention once and for all.

...this hat tastes like poop.

i disagree. if it is flavor text, the rules text is an odd place to put a single word of flavor. many on this thread have expressed their personal interpretation on the text as an official ruling. I would like an actual official ruling on this. does anyone know where i can find one?

then why does it say HEAVY HORSE in the paladin entry and HORSE in the Animal Companion entry? the HORSE, LIGHT entry and HORSE, HEAVY entry both specify the use of the Simple: Advanced Template for the Heavy Horse. my point is that the Animal Companion list not having Heavy Horse in it does not negate the paladin entry for a Heave Horse. Who uses a heavy horse if not a paladin? they need that extra strength to carry them, their armor, their barding, their extra weapons, etc. that doesn't fit with the light horse carrying capacity.

am I wrong somewhere in my post above? i checked the Heavy Horse entry and it does seem to be correct. i think i was looking at the Horse, Advanced, which is different and not what should be used.

Yes, always use the companion stats.

where does it say that? it doesnt say a paladin chooses from the companion list. it says he gets a heavy warhorse wth INT 6, which means light riding horse + simple advanced + combat training & INT 6 according to the entry for "HORSE, LIGHT". the entry for "HORSE, DRAFT (Heavy) shows this (i thought that it didn't but i was looking at the HORSE, ADVANCED entry which is different and not what should be used). i say this because there is no "Heavy Warhorse" in the companion list but it says "Heavy Warhorse" in the paladin entry

A core point of the paladin's mount is being missed.

it is a HEAVY WARHORSE. (usually)

a paladin does not get an ANIMAL COMPANION, they just use the ANIMAL COMPANION rules to enhance and progress the paladin mount.

The Paladin Class does not provide a list of options as to what is usable as a mount and what is not, however if they choose something other than a HEAVY WARHORSE, they must go by the options listed in the ANIMAL COMPANION list. Keep in mind that the listing in ANIMAL COMPANION is HORSE, not HEAVY WARHORSE. Therefore whatever the paladin chooses should be a HEAVY WAR- version of that listing, giving it the Simple Advanced Template and Combat Training (according to the HORSE entry in the Beastiary and this website). This means that the druid and ranger ANIMAL COMPANIONS do not gain the advantage of the simple advanced template but the paladin does. also keep in mind that options for a paladin mount should be limited to:

Large (for medium sized paladin, Medium for small sized paladins, etc)

2HD (even though the table starts at 5HD, the base creature should
still be 2HD since the Simple Advanced Template and Combat Training
are already included. However i would say at higher levels one could
choose a more powerful mount with that base HD limit of 3 less than
the chart states at any given level)

CR1

A generally ride-able quadruped body type

i have seen some conflicting, poorly mathed, poorly grammared (excusing my intentionally incorrect grammaring) entries for "HEAVY HORSE" and "HEAVY WARHORSE" therefore i discard them in favor of the following baseline and applicable modular entries:

a 5th level paladin's mount should be as follows:

Heavy WarHorse
CR 5
N Large animal
Init +4(Dex)
Senses
low-light vision
scent
Perception +11

SPECIAL QUALITIES
Docile (Ex) Combat Training
LInk
Share Spells
Evasion (or Barding Training with Charger AC Archtype)

At 11th Level, the mount would have this:

Heavy WarHorse
CR 8
N Large animal (Good)
Init +5(Dex)
Senses
low-light vision
scent
Perception +11

FEATS
Endurance (appears to be a free feat from being horse)
Run (1HD bonus feat)
______ (3HD bonus feat)
______ (5HD bonus feat
______ (7HD bonus feat)
______ (9HD bonus feat)
SKILLS
Intimidate +7 = +1(CHA) +3(Rank) +3(Charger Archtype Class)
Perception +11 = +3(WIS) +5(Rank) +3(Animal Class)
Linguistics -3 = -4(INT) +1(Rank)
Lagnuages: Common (automatic with INT>2), Celestial (from rank in Linguistics)
SPECIAL QUALITIES
Docile (Ex) Combat Training
Simple Advanced Template: all abilites +4, AC +2(nat)
Link
Share Spells
Evasion (or Barding Training with Charger AC Archtype)
Devotion (or Indefatigable with Charge AC Archtype)
Multiattack (or Barding Training improved with Charger AC Archtype)
Celestial Template:
Darkvision 60ft
Energy Resistance 10 vs acid, cold, & electricity
Damage Reduction 5/evil
Smite Evil once per day +1(CHA)
Spell Resistance 13 = CR+8
Magical Beast (in reference to which spells affect it)

ANIMAL
Paizo Inc.

HORSE (aka HORSE, LIGHT) (aka LIGHT RIDING HORSE)
Paizo Inc.
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 7

on the same page after the ECOLOGY Section is this entry:
"The statistics above are for a typical riding horse, called by some a “light horse.” Some horses are larger and heartier, bred for labor such as pulling plows or carriages. These horses are called “heavy horses” and gain the advanced simple template, a bite attack, increased hoof damage, and can be specifically trained for combat with the Handle Animal skill.

therefore a Paladin's HEAVY WARHORSE has combat training and the simple advanced template:
HEAVY (simple advanced template) + WAR (combat trained = Docile) + HORSE (light riding horse base statistics)

SIMPLE ADVANCED TEMPLATE
Paizo Inc.
"Rebuild Rules: AC increase natural armor by +2; Ability Scores +4 to all ability scores (except Int scores of 2 or less)"

PALAIN DIVINE BOND ENTRY
Paizo Inc.
"This mount is usually a heavy horse (for a Medium paladin) or a pony (for a Small paladin), although more exotic mounts, such as a boar, camel, or dog are also suitable. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6.

At 15th level, a paladin's mount gains spell resistance equal to the paladin's level + 11.

therefore, since this HEAVY WARHORSE gained at 5th level has the simple advanced template which gives it a +4 to all stats except intelligence since it starts off as a 2, but gets an Intelligence of at least 6 from being a paladin's mount. this basically says that the +4 from the simple advanced template has been allowed to bring the intelligence up to a 6

but, my players complain, if the Paladin entry says at least INT 6 and we get to add the Simple Advanced Template, that +4 now applies to Intelligence, therefore the intelligence is now a 10 before we even get to the Animal Companion Chart, right? NO. WRONG. Intelligence 6. you're trying to double dip the same bonus. this is my interpretation. yall do what you like. lets move on

SIMPLE: CELESTIAL TEMPLATE
Paizo Inc.

NATURAL ATTACKS BY SIZE
Paizo Inc.

ANIMAL COMPANION0
Paizo Inc./url]
"An animal companion's abilities are determined by the druid's level and its animal racial traits. Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics determines many of the base statistics of the animal companion. They remain creatures of the animal type for purposes of determining which spells can affect them."

But can horses read?
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Aatod4vlwA]Paizo Inc.

Yes. Horses can read if trained. Horses can read Russian if trained.

But can they write? meh. sure why not. but yes, it would take a long time. but as the video shows they can at least spell correctly.

But can they speak?
no. but they can whinny. and gesture. and communicate with rudimentary body language. So they can still communicate with anyone who is paying attention (Perception check, then INT or Linguistics ck)