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Organized Play Member. 5 posts (11 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 4 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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Cheapy wrote:
How is a Cleric archer more powerful than say, a Bard archer? The +5 to hit and damage bards can get seem much better than any cleric buff spells I've seen.

I assume you mean Inspire Courage (+3 competence at level 12). The AOE benefit is of course awesome. But selfishly, compare to:

Quickened Divine Favor: +3 luck to hit and damage.
AND: Heroism Sub-Domain power: Allies (faq says this includes me) get +2 morale bonus to hit and damage, 12 rounds/day
NET: +5 to hit and damage for me, +2 for the party, in 1 round.
Or:
Standard Divine Power: +4 luck to hit and damage, extra attack (does not stack with haste)

But I meant that cleric archers are more powerful mostly because they are full spellcasters, and therefore have level 5 and level 6 spells like heal and harm at level 12.


Thumbnail comparison for that level 12 archer fighter
To Hit 23x2/23/23/18/13
Damage d8+2d6+22 (33.5)

Analysis:
That's inferior to the magus in accuracy mode. If the magus can't afford to spam arcane accuracy, the fighter has the advantage, with +1 to hit, +.5 damage, and one extra shot at +13. Against very low AC opponents, the magus tears things up in high damage mode.

Assumptions:
Attack: BAB 12, Dex +7, GWF+2, WM+2, DA-3, GMW+3(Pearl of power and extend rod loaned to friendly wizard), +1 haste (boots of speed)-2 RS PB+1= 23x2/23/23/18
Damage: d8 Str+7 GWS+4 WM+2 DA+6 GMW+3 Holy +2d6=d8+2d6+22= 33.5/arrow.

Neglected Fighter Benefits
The fighter gets 5 extra feats relative to the magus and I've only spent 2 of them. Adding Imp Precise Shot and Point Blank Master will help the fighter's reliability; Vital Shot will make him less depressed when he has to move. Those 3 feats have to compete with level 4 spells at CL 12. The fighter will have slightly higher AC and HP.


Matt Haddix wrote:
It seems like you're missing out on most of the decent features of playing a magus by going this route. You'd probably be better off by playing, say, a bard. Or an archer cleric. Or an inquisitor.

"All" you miss out on is spell strike and spell combat.... and in the long run you get an equal number of attacks (rapid shot+many shot vs. touch spell and bonus delivery attack), and don't have to burn touch spells to do it. Agreed that its painful to have dead class features, but I'm looking at what the character can do at the table compared to other archers, not compared to other magi, and am pretty happy.

On a pure taste basis, I view divine casters as different enough from arcane casters that the inquisitor and cleric are not equivalent (the cleric archer is, of course, probably more powerful). Bards .... an arcane duelist is pretty competitive with this guy, but bladethirst takes a standard action to turn on and doesn't let you stack more than d6 elemental damage. Plus you're a bard....

Where I think this guy shines is as a pathfinder society replacement for a ranged eldritch knight or arcane archer build. Wizard 5/Fighter1/Eldritch Knight 6 is great at level 12-- but for level 1-5, you're a wizard with strange feat choices. Fighter 5/Wizard 2/Arcane Archer, you're a suboptimal fighter for 5 levels. Even without spell strike/spell combat, the archer magus probably has more special abilities than either of those characters, even at level 12.

And this guy is a very solid damage dealer compared to pure martial builds:

By level 12, you reliably have 6d6+ bonus damage from spells, bonus feats, and class features (4d6 elemental from flame arrows and arcane pool; +2 from weapon spec as a bonus feat; +d4 from gravity bow via an arcana; +4 from arcane strike via a bonus feat). That's MORE bonus damage than a rogue, uncapped by range or the need for flat-footed targets. The rogue has piles of skill points and rogue powers, but you have piles of spells for utility and defense , including reliable buffs like greater magic weapon (for you AND the rogue!). Near as I can tell you exceed or match the damage of a single-classed fighter archer at comparable accuracy and have way more to do outside of combat or if you encounter the dreaded windwall.

Of course, you can always hedge your bets, drop one feat into weapon finesse, and take the black blade ACF for a free magic sword as a backup....


Callarek wrote:

Enlarge Person doesn't do anything good for archers.

Enlarge Person wrote:

All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged

by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more
damage (see page 145). Other magical properties are not affected
by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s
possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly
returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile
weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged
items are not increased by this spell.

I keep finding minor differences between 3.5 and Pathfinder. Interesting. The level 12 statblock doesn't assume enlarge person-- I decided that it would be unusual to have enough forewarning to cast two short-duration buffs (enlarge person and gravity bow).


KNS: Fixed, sorry. Built the character on 20 points and then somehow typed in 25 at the end.

BDK: Turns out I don't know how to do spoilers on this forum. Built a stat block.