Styx of Speed's page

How you wield the weapon affects how much strength damage you add.

Claxon, thank you for the reply.

This quote and looking over the rules on when to add 1.5 strength finally opened my eyes.

Sorry to everyone for my stubbornness and inability to understand. Thank you for trying to help!

Styx of Speed wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

Styx of Speed wrote:

Question: Is adding strength mod (or 1.5 str mod) part of how a weapon deals damage?

No, it is part of how it is wielded.

Let me state the question more clear. Is adding strength mod part of how a weapon deals damage?

Not the part that Bashing modifies.

Bashing does not state that it only modifies part of how a weapon deals damage. It states that it modifies how a weapon deals damage, as if two sizes categories larger.

The way I see a light shield of bashing successful attack:
1) Attack as a light weapon
2) Calculate weapon damage as a two-handed weapon (two size categories larger)

While calculating weapon damage, the strength modifier is added. At that time, if the weapon is two-handed and considered one-handed or larger, instead add 1.5 strength modifier.

Sorry to be so dense.

Styx of Speed wrote:

Question: Is adding strength mod (or 1.5 str mod) part of how a weapon deals damage?

No, it is part of how it is wielded.

Let me state the question more clear. Is adding strength mod part of how a weapon deals damage?

See the FAQ about increasing size for damage:

FAQ wrote:

Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).
posted March 2015 | back to top

Actually increasing the size (enlarge) and increasing the effective size (bashing) are different. As you don't actually increase the size of the shield, you can't use it as if it had a larger size.

"Deals damage as if it were ... larger" don't mean "it become larger", and that is what matter when using a light shield. It is a light weapon and stay a light weapon.

The FAQ actually makes me feel more confident in my thinking, though I am willing to be wrong. I just have not seen any compelling evidence. Forgive me for being stubborn.

The FAQ mentions effective size increases, which applies to bashing, but it mentions the different language used. The first being like bashing, "deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are." The second being "your damage die type increases by one step." I get that they are effective size changes and do not stack, but the difference in wording is what gets me. If bashing was only limited to "your damage die type increasing by one step", why wouldn't it just say so especially when there is other text that says specifically that? I get that it could have been a carry over, but there have been many chances to change the wording, especially once the second wording was created, which could have been a carry over as well.

Question: Is adding strength mod (or 1.5 str mod) part of how a weapon deals damage?

If so, wouldn't the effective size for how the weapon "deals damage" be taken into account.

I get that a light shield of bashing is a light weapon and should be treated as a light weapon EXCEPT when dealing damage. "deals damage as"

Rules exist and then many magical properties and such provide exceptions to those rules. The way I see all of the replies so far (and I could be wrong) is that the 'light weapon' aspect of the weapon supersedes effective size changes in all but the damage die increase, which I disagree with at the moment until someone can show me that it does.

It's a Light weapon, so no. And even if it switches sizes that doesn't change that (Bastard Sword is unique in that regard). Thirdly, Bashing doesn't change the actual size, just the damage.

Please see my reply to Dark Midian.

In addition to that, I get that it doesn't actually change the size of the weapon, but it does change the size of the weapon in terms of damage dealt. Determining if 1.5 strength modifier is applied to damage would seem to be done with the "damage" size.

I get that it might not have been the intention of the rules to allow this, but we can say that about many, many things.

This is such a leap of logic I'm surprised you're not on a mental gymnastics team. While the logic of two-handing a shield is fine, if a bit weird, the bashing property treats the shield as larger for damage dice. It does not make anything truly larger, and a light shield is still light.

Bashing does not mention damage dice, it mentions "deals damage". I get that it might have been the only intended consequence, but it is not necessarily the only consequence.

A light weapon is not always a light weapon. A huge, light dagger is a two-handed weapon for a medium character and would benefit from 1.5 strength modifier to damage.

Taken from d20pfsrd.com:

I agree that it does not make it larger, but it "deals damage as if it were ... larger".

I wanted to increase bashing with my light shield, since I plan on going with shield and no other weapon. Yes, Cap style. It can be debated that I should go with a heavy shield, but that is not my question.

A heavy shield is a one-handed weapon and, as such, get 1.5 strength modifier added to damage when bashing with two hands.

However, would a light shield of bashing also get 1.5 strength modifier added to damage when bashing with two hands?

A shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a bashing weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash. Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.

Emphasis mine.

So, a bashing medium light shield deals damage as a huge light shield. A huge light shield is a light weapon for a huge creature and a two-handed weapon for a medium creature. So, it seems that damage would allow for the 1.5 strength modifier to be added to damage if wielded two-handed.

Am I missing anything?