Thank you for your kind words. My group probably have a habit of going a bit overboard with role playing and accept cheesy and cliche elements in the name of a good game. We also tend to avoid too much mechanics outside of combat (For instance we never use the diplomacy or sense motive skills to decide the outcome on important interaction, they are just mood setters pre-negotiation or slight modifiers/ways to remember tactical mannerisms etc). So my way of dealing with the items/5 spirits somewhat reflects this. Regarding the items what happened in our game was that the aspect of the Splatter man contacted the PCs in pretty much the way i describe above using the spirit planchette. It should be noted that this was BEFORE the players actually found said items. All this conversation really resulted in was hinting to them that they needed to find the items and remembering the Spirit Planchette.
Originally i wanted to have the planchette give out the details for the items and further exposition, but found it rather cumbersome to do. I wanted to avoid having to spell out stats or even short line them (your will better be able to resist the mental control of X.. etc) and wanted to use the opportunity to create more connection to the prisoners, whom the players by this time already had done the research on.
Probably a somewhat cumbersome and railroady way of doing things - but we did this between sessions and it was a good way for each player to build up great appetite for the next session, and made hunting down the spirits both more personal and, surprisingly, more scary. (having seen first hand what mosswater marauder did with his club while alive, or the careful meticulous psychopathic way splatter man dealt with his victims added expectancy and fright towards their fights) The intention was to keep the mystery of the Spirit Planchette on one side (which i'm sure will be an interesting item further into the campaign) - but also help build personal connection to the antagonists using the weapons.
I agree with what is said in the thread, by "RAW" the Spirit Planchette seems to be the best use.
Spoiler:
GM: Please make a perception check. Player: 17. GM: You wake from a soft scraping sound coming from under your bed. Your room is pitch black and the dark outside your window shows that the morning moon has yet to rise. The scraping continues. Player: I light a candle and look under the bed. GM: The only thing there is the bag you used to hold the loot from the cometary. But, either it's a trick of the light or the bag seems to moving.. somewhat. Player: I pull it out and carefully, holding the candle in my left hand.. i look inside. GM: You see clearly what is making the scraping noise, its the needle from the Spirit Planchette you found earlier .. it seems to be moving on its own. Trying to spell something out. Player: I carefully pull it out and place it on my table - trying not to disturb the needle. Can't i see what it is writing? GM: Yes you can.... H-E-L-P-M-E-H-E-L-P-M-E-H-E-L-P-M-E. And remember, at times, the APs are rushed, time is spent on the wrong items, contradict the rules or simply does not mesh with a particular group. The thing to remember with these APs is that ever GM should take care to modify and fit them in with what their players prefer. The AP authors, while excellent and creative men and women, are not capable of writing something that fits perfectly with every group. Us GMs are the ones who have the privilege of taking the SUGGESTIONS they make and fitting them in to what our group wants.
Ways to fix this is to either make them learn-able through magic means and keep the planchette as a "look beyond the veil of death and face the consequences" kind of thing and not a replacement and equal to good old boring identify.
Spoiler: At first read i too found it fishy that the items had "spirits" and the "all knowingness" (but 40% chance of lying!) of the planchette. Then i decided to go with it. When the prison burned and the prisoners died and, unlike normally, did not pass on to the afterlife but were forced to keep haunting the prison forever they caused the "birth" of the various haunts and apparitions. These "enteties" are however not the entirety of the prisoner's spirit - but the evil, dark, manipulative and malevolent force wishing to do harm. The rest, the tiny bit of goodness, of altruism, they had in them was trapped too - but did not become haunts or ghosts... no they instead took refuge in the most precious items they had when alive.
So each of the 5 items has in it the trapped (miniscule!)part of the spirits of Splatter Man, Mosswater, Charlatan etc. These spirits (or spirit fractions) are in agony. Not only are they prevented from passing on - they are forced to relive the evil they did both while still alive AND now still while dead. They want nothing more then the termination of their ghostly existence and thus, through a remarkable act of will and redemption reach out - through the only means they can find - the spirit Planchette. This enabled me to give all the information of the items, AND tie these items directly to the defeat/destruction of the haunts. I also made minor adjustments to the items to better fit (my groups take on) the situation and used this to explain exactly how these items worked (as explained above they were not magical - and why should really for instance charlatan or splatter react like he did to their items.... shame?)
Zhangar wrote:
That sounds very reasonable. I've been thinking over how to best let the players find out the properties of these items - it is obviously that they need to know if they are to be of any help, but i did not blatantly want to give out all the details either. I like the way of separating the good and the bad abilities of the items like this. King of Vrock wrote:
I would not. For my group that would ruin the "mysticism" and "scariness" of the Spirit Planchet. As i see it the Spirit Planchet is a perfect tool for adding some scariness and group controlled exposition by having it contact the departed spirits. Nothing ruins that by having it spell out "y-o-u--g-e-t--+-2--t-o--w-i-l-l--s-a-v-e-s".(yes you could say "more resistant to ghost intrusions from X" or something instead). Not to mention it would take forever and really trivialize the use of the Spirit Planchet to us. It would no longer be a dangerous tool to ask forbidden questions, but something the players is forced to use continuously to "clear" the items after they find them. Not to mention the Spirit Planchet should be a tool to contact the not all-knowing ghosts instead of the all-knowing goods if it is to remain scary. To my group this would ruin the potentially exciting Spirit Planchet and really, discerning the special properties of items is not the most exciting part of the game and should be done by identify and spellcraft.King of Vrock wrote:
Is a nice way of doing it. But seems to me to not be a very intuitive way for the players to stumble upon - and also raises the question... how would they know?
Voomer wrote:
I would arguably conclude that positive energy IS the exorcism spells/effects (vs undead) of Golarion - I and my group have certainly been playing them as such. Especially now with the haunts. Positive energy has the ability to damage undead already, it works on haunts and according to the rules it already functions as to destroy/dissipate the lingering evil undead spirits (i.e exorcism).If there were to be any exorcism spells beyond this i'd have them effect demons/devils or general evil instead. Undead life force on our material plane is already well handled by positive energy. I can vividly imagine a cleric that puts his hand on the forehead of a possessed child and channels positive energy or casts a cure light wounds AT the child to damage the (undead) spirit inside. I can also see wizard confronting the same child by repeatedly casting disrupt undead at the child (and undead spirit) while repeatedly condemning the spirit to return to whence it came. Likewise i can easily see the same cleric or wizard standing inside the area of a haunt - targeting the air, or possessed fixtures of the room, with their channels and disrupts to force the malevolent force into submission.
How exactly is it RAW that you can't target the haunt? The rules for haunt clearly stipulates that the players can both detect it ahead of time and can target it will targetable spells (that hits a AC 10). There should not be anything in the Piper that directly contradicts this, and if so i would argue it was no longer a haunt.
The rules stipulate that any player who targets a cure light wounds or disrupt undead "at the haunt" hits against an AC of 10. How to play this with this haunt is that if the players catch on that this is a haunt (or simply go crazy) and start shooting into the dark/the walls/at the invisible source of the music etcor simply "at the invisible force in the air" and are within the area haunt they roll against an AC of 10. If they hit they hit the invisible malevolent presence that is the haunt - if they miss their "shot" dissipates into thin air/goes through and hit the far wall etc. |