Socrates314's page

1 post. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


RSS


Kelseus wrote:
CRB pg 298 Disbelieving Illusions sidebar wrote:
If the illusion is visual, and a creature interacts with the illusion in a way that would prove it is not what it seems, the creature might know that an illusion is present, but it still can’t ignore the illusion without successfully disbelieving it. For instance, if a character is pushed through the illusion of a door, they will know that the door is an illusion, but they still can’t see through it. Disbelieving an illusion makes it and those things it blocks seem hazy and indistinct, so even in the case where a visual illusion is disbelieved, it may, at the GM’s discretion, block vision enough to make those on the other side concealed.

So for the level one, if the creature touches the illusion, and thus their hand/sword goes straight through it, they "know" it is an illusion and can walk right through it. You only have to "disbelieve" if you want to be able to see through it.

At level 2, it is a bit more complicated. My question is: if I have an illusory wall, can you still walk through it? I would say yes only because otherwise it can be as effective as a much higher level wall spell. If a one of the opponents disbelieves and walks through it, its companions now "know" it is an illusion and not a conjured wall and can then walk through without disbelieving.

I think a key part of the rule you quoted was "but it still can't ignore the illusion without successfully disbelieving." I'm not in the habit of trying to walk through solid walls; and until I succeed at my check even if I know it is an illusion spell I still believe it is a solid wall. It's hard to argue that intentionally walking through a wall isn't ignoring it.

Moreso I can't find where it says that the illusion is a hologram; the level 2 version doesn't say "it gains a sense of touch" it says that is "feels right to the touch" There doesn't seem to be a tag that specifically calls out that an illusion is tactile; Illusory Creature, Hallucinatory Terrain, and Illusory Scene are Illusion, Visual, Auditory, and Olfactory and their specific language is that they "feel right to the touch" which implies that Illusory Object feels wrong to the touch but not necessarily that feels like thin air?

I was going to respond to the comments about mazes and walls; but it seems several others have while I wrote this.

One last thing; if "knowing" that something is an illusion means you can walk through it then this spell only requires 1 action from the entire enemy team; as soon as anyone disbelieves than can just tell their friends to ignore it. That seems incredibly punitive and was one of the arguments we considered in deciding how we run the spell.

As far as thoughts on adjudicating the spell; the level 1 version definitely has something wrong with how it feels; so anyone who touches it would have every reason to continue trying to disbelieve it. The level 2 version seems far more likely to convince people to try something else once they fail once. They also don't need to waste an action seeking if they are trying to "move" through the wall. The move action would bring them into contact with it so they'd get a free save and if they succeeded could just continue moving. That also nerfs the cage idea because if the illusion is too close the chances that targets come into contact with it unintentionally raises significantly.