Snickering Southerner's page

Chess: I had a long thing explaining how, thanks to targeting Touch AC with every attack at range, my version is just as if not more accurate and has more attacks and is better at doing damage compared to the melee or bow using ones you put up, and how you're right about being worse at casting comparatively, but honestly I don't think I need to post it. :) Because, tbh, I'm just not interested in playing a single-classed pure Investigator (or Psychic Detective). Period. It's one of the reasons I said I've had trouble figuring out how to build one I'd actually play. Thank you for your advice, I'm sure it's useful for someone who wants to play a single classed Psychic Detective Investigator. But I am interested in playing a multi-classed Psychic Detective who is combined with some form of Martial class for sturdiness and striking ability - I think I'll have more fun that way.

Wizard: Thanks! I didn't even know about Ranged Study - I've never played Investigator before, as I wasn't even remotely interested in playing it single classed. I'll pick Weapon Focus up at Level 5 (bonus feat ftw) and Ranged Study at Level 9 when Studied Combat comes online - it'll give me a good option for moments when I can't Full Attack, until I get Quick Study and then I can use it then too! :)

I'm planning to build this character combo for PFS. I like the Psychic Detective, but building one that I'd actually play has been difficult to figure out because of how I build my PFS characters. When I build a character in PFS, I require it be able to contribute significantly to the party in at least 3 of the 5 categories I designate (DPS, Control, Support, Utility, Healing). There are other ways to categorize a character's contributions, you could separate Face, you could combine Utility and Healing into Support, you could regard Tank as separate from Control. I just picked those 5 for my own easy categorization purposes. This character uses the Musket Master as a chassis for DPS contributions, has skills out the wazoo for Utility contributions, and can cast Psychic spells for Support.

Human
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 7
Larger than Life
Magical Knack
First level Musket Master, second Psychic Detective, then the rest Musket Master until it hits level 5, where I cut it off and build the rest as the Psychic Detective.

The only combat feats needed levels 1-5 are Point Blank, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, and Rapid Shot (in that order) and you have all your feats after that free to work with. You're not MAD, just needing "enough" strength to not be encumbered, and you've got solid, steady damage output vs Touch AC within 40 feet with the Musket. Alchemical Cartridges aren't as cheap as arrows, but you get Abundant Ammunition to help deal with any worries about ammo costs. I'd go ahead and put it on a wand, to be honest.

You've got skills, but jack for Charisma so you won't be a diplomat (but with Larger than Life, Intimidate will still be a good fit for you). Plenty enough skill points to keep Intimidate, Disable Device, Stealth, Perception, Acrobatics, and Spellcraft maxed, and still have at least two Knowledge ranks per level even on the Gunslinger levels (with an extra two on each Psychic Detective level). The reason Wis isn't higher is because you're guaranteed "minimum one" Grit Point, and you wouldn't get an extra until Wis was at least 14, when it wouldn't actually be used for anything else but Will Saves, and you can just take the Human Favored Class Bonus four times for an extra grit point, and with several free Feat choices you could also pick up Extra Grit if you need. To be honest, I'm not really sure what I'll do with those feats.

Any thoughts on this build?

Decided to focus on the rager since it's what I want to play.

Only now that I decided, honest thought has me wondering about the archetype. I like it in concept - and a part of me loves the idea of it sharing my "Form of the Dragon" ability when I enter rage so that I'd have 2 Large Gold or Green dragons, but it would cap out at an effective level of 14 with Boon Companion, 10 without, and in the endgame would have trouble actually hitting anything, I think. Whereas I, with massive strength and full BAB and other bonuses, reasonably expect to be swinging with a +30 something, it would realistically top out at around +20ish at best (16 starting str, 2 from its "growth spurt", 2 extra when I'm raging, +4 bonus, +6 from FotD2=+10, 9 BAB, and a +3 Amulet of Mighty Fists=22) and would have much fewer hit points.

And just buying a mount is inexpensive, so if it's not going to be a combatant then I'm not sure there's a good reason to be a Bloodrider. And I'm not really planning on mounted combat.

The only other archetype I like is the Steelblood, but I don't like losing DR so I think I might just be a straight Bloodrager. I dislike Primalist because I feel like it's truly broken - there's no downside to it at all, it's just a straight voluntary trade if you don't like some of your bloodline powers.

I'm also considering dropping the Eldritch Heritage line. +6 Strength is nice, but it'll already get pretty high without EH. And without EH, I won't have to worry about ever raising Cha past 14. And it frees up 3 whole feats that I can use for other things - like Riving Strike, Raging vitality, and other rage feats. It's a loss of 3 points of damage per swing(not counting multipliers), but is it worth it? Maybe. Besides that, just thinking of dropping Quick Draw - once in melee and in rage, I'm planning to use natural attacks most of the time anyway.

My current feat progression(as planned) looks like this.
1: Combat Reflexes, Raging Vitality
3: Intimidating Prowess
5: Arcane Strike
6: Power Attack
7: Cornugon Smash
8: Improved Initiative
9: Bloodied Arcane Strike
11: Riving Strike, Toughness
13:
14: Blind-Fight
15:
17:
19:

As you can see, this leaves me 4 free feats. Suggestions and advice on filling these would be appreciated.

I'm thinking 15' reach claws now, actually. I know, not as strong as the bite, but more of them. Pop Rage, Greater Bloodrage cast "Long Arm" to give me 15' reach, and with Intimidating Prowess and Cornugon Smash it'd be hard for things to get around me without getting smacked and demoralized. And if they get close enough, I'll bite too.

On the bloodrager, I like the idea of the Bloodrider archetype. I give up fast movement, uncanny dodge(and improved) and one bonus feat for a bonded mount and the ability to give him bonuses from my rage and spells? I think it's worth the trade.

I'm thinking about switching Cleave from the bloodline feats out for Blind-Fight, and getting Intimidating Prowess and Cornugon Smash. Levels 1-6 as a rager, then 2 levels of disciple (get that bite for a 3rd natural attack before others even have a 3rd iterative attack) then finish up my rager levels before going Disciple. Still not sure if Levels should be 13/7 or 14/6 - if Indomitable Will is worth giving up for +1 natural armor and 1 FotD1 once/day.

The archaeologist, I'm less sure what I'm going to do in general. Initially, when I first thought of it, I was going to do a dex-based character. But I had trouble not with amount of feats, but feat progression, and the relevant end stats wouldn't have been much higher endgame, though dex would have been slightly higher on the way there. So I thought about just a well-rounded one. I don't want to give up too much casting since even if not a full caster, I believe the spells have a lot of value. Initially, I thought about doing an Eldritch Knight but I'd need a level in a martial class for proficiency. And the only benefits were fighter levels, a few bonus feats, *slightly* higher end-game BAB (and an iterative attack with a minimal bonus - pfff), slightly higher potential hit dice.

So I started looking at how many feats I'd actually *need* to take, and that character has surprisingly few "set" feats that are necessary if built from a Str-perspective. But, as I said, better weapons for a character who will be a solid secondary melee would be very desirable. And the cutoff levels, in my mind, are 12 and 17. The benefits for an Archaeologist between 12 and 17 aren't worth the trade off of what you'd get from a good PrC, or even a small dip that enhances what you already do. At 12 you get an Advanced Talent and you have +3 (4 with fate's favored) luck bonus, at 16 you get your second Advanced Talent and 17 you get your max luck bonus. Since you don't get performance abilities, there's no benefit going past that. So what would be good for 3 levels? Well, a few levels of a martial class. What about 8 levels? Well, at that point it needs to be a PrC that advances spellcasting, I think.

That's why I was thinking of 4 levels or so in Disciple - +4 strength couldn't hurt, a little extra natural armor, advances 3 of the spellcasting levels and gives some extra HP. And it could be taken even without any martial proficiency - which I'd still like - but I don't know about going any further than 4 levels.

The Archaeologist is the one I could use the most help with, in general.

Shade: Well, the simple reason is that the Human already gets a free feat, so the Half-Elf's feat isn't a consideration, and the extra rounds aren't an issue between lingering song and the DM giving me extra rounds at 1/level of Archaeologist's Luck per the creator's words, rather than RAW. With lingering song and even just 16 cha, I'll start with 21 rounds and have over 5 minutes/day of it at Level 10 anyway.

Not that I'm opposed to switching races, just that those reasons don't seem like the reason to do it.

Devil:

The Combat Reflexes are a feat I'm considering dropping for something else. But yeah, for AOO with a reach weapon at early levels (first round throw a javelin, then set himself between the party and enemies with a reach weapon and smack anything that approaches, second round drop the reach weapon, pop rage and use claws for two attacks at full bonus) and after Bloodline level 16, just AOOs in general while in Dragon form - since with Greater Bloodrage (+6 Str) AND Form of the Dragon 2 (another +6 Str) if I'm not mistaken, he'd have an effective Str of 50(assuming an 18 starting score). Without any buffs from the rest of the party. And he's built for being up close, so multiple AOOs with a natural reach of 10' (from being a Large dragon) seemed like a decent investment.

I'm intending to use Dragon form a lot, to be honest, once I get it. 6 Natural Attacks/round with an endgame BAB of 17-18 (depending on level split) and +20 strength? Yes please. And with Arcane Strike, Power Attack, an Amulet of Mighty Fists, I'm confident his damage output will be quite respectable.

As for the Bard, I like the idea of a couple levels in Paladin for the martial proficiency and Divine Grace (not that the saves are bad) but I'm concerned about the loss of spellcasting going past 2 levels. A 15th level bard (12+3 from Disciple) would never get 6th level spells at all. Did you find it was worth that tradeoff? I'm liking the look of Dance of a Thousand Cuts and Irresistible Dance in particular, along with the other 5th or 4th level spells (human favored class bonus) I could learn as extra.

So, in my area I've got a group of friends who are interested in getting a game night going. YAY! I'm not going to be doing PFS again (I've done it before, but scheduling vs my other needs doesn't work atm) so this is great news. Plus, a static group that can play through entire campaigns? Yes!

I'm an extremely experienced gamer. I don't know if I'll be *the most* experienced gamer at the table, but I've played many systems and practically every type of character (not every class, I mean role and general type). I've found I can play most roles well at this point, from sheer experience. And I have, over the course of that time, found what I like playing most is generally a character that mixes combat and spellcasting - a gish, essentially. Various types appeal to me for different reasons, in different games. We haven't gotten together to make our characters yet - still looking for a couple more players - but I know a few things already.

1: We have a new player - new to tabletop and to Pathfinder. He wants to play the Healer. He wants to play the Holy Vindicator/Life Oracle I had originally thought I might play (it was one of my builds I'd been working up) and we'll probably let him so he can spend his first few levels focusing on healing and learning the combat system, then get some combat/tank ability from the Vindicator.

2: Another player wants to play either a Necromancer type character or a Switch Hitter Ranger.

3: I know some of the ways our DM will come down on some things that research showed were questions on this board when I went looking for ideas.

So, here's the 2 characters I'm thinking I might be likely to end up playing. I'd like some feedback if anyone feels up to it. fBefore that, though, know this; I'm not looking for "perfect optimization" just advice and suggestions (feats, for example, including some tradeoffs) and I'll put more specific bits up regarding each one.

That's the character I really want to play. And as of right now I think there's a good chance it's the character I'll end up playing, but it depends on if our other is the Ranger and the remaining two players we've yet to meet. The other character I'd like some feedback on is who I'll be playing if I end up needing to be our "Utility" person with stealth, traps, etc. If I end up needing to be our arcane caster, I'll play a Sylvan Sorcerer and know how to build that, so I'd like feedback on this bad sumb*.

Again, I'd appreciate any ideas you care to contribute. Whether or not I use them, I'm grateful for the time you take to help me flesh out my concepts.

So, with the new update taking Aasimar off the playable list, that effectively retires what has been my main PFS character (a Garuda-blooded Aasimar Freebooter) until I can clarify whether that makes current characters unplayable or not.

Anyway, I'd been intending to start a new character anyway. I enjoy the Ranger class. I like having skills, and being a capable martial character, and a little bit of spell access (especially for using certain wands) to back it up just makes the class feel like a really well-rounded place for my playstyle.

I've seen how powerful Archery is, but I wanted to make something akin to a Switch Hitter with a stronger archery focus than Treantmonk's. I've read the guide by Treantmonk and the Archer guide, but don't necessarily agree with them on a few things.

Quick Draw: Seems only useful for two things; getting your bow out in the first round so you can start using full attack/rapidshot/manyshot from the beginning of combat, or (when enemies close to melee) getting your full-attack with your melee weapon. Since I intend to use Gravity Bow excessively, I don't mind using a move action to pull my bow and delaying my attacks until the second turn. And early in the game, you won't have second attacks in melee anyway (unless you're doing TWF, which I'm not planning on) and later there's another option to consider that might be better than spending a feat on Quick Draw - Vital Strike! I'm aware some see it as a "trap" feat line, but it's useful for those times you HAVE to move and can't full-attack anyway, and it still allows you to pull your melee weapon and hit hard at your highest attack bonus despite not getting your full-attack action.

Snap Shot/Improved Snap Shot; 15' threat range... not as big a deal as it sounds, due to my plan for how to handle melee. Can get the same benefits without spending 2 extra feats.

Point Blank Mastery: I considered this. I really did. But... nah. It makes you a pure archer, which is totally fine, because you absolutely NEVER need to not use your bow. Even when something is in your face. But it still requires Weapon Focus (not a bad feat) as a pre-requisite, making it a 2-feat cost.

For ranged damage output, I figured I'd need:
Manyshot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Deadly Aim
Point Blank Shot (just because it's a pre-requisite).

For melee damage, while I feel it's actually possible to build a viable switch hitter using TWF, it's just easier (and less expensive) to do it with two handed fighting. Therefore, the feats I think are important there are:
Power Attack
Furious Focus
Combat Reflexes

Yep, that's it. "But what about Step-Up" or "What about Lunge?"

See, I'm planning to always carry a potion or two of Enlarge Person. When something is getting into melee range, it's time to chug a potion and use Lead Blades, then whapping them over the head with a big honking Greatsword (or maybe Falchion?) taking advantage of the Reach of being Large. Or at least, that was my initial plan until I realized something. I never NOT have a spiked gauntlet. Never. To the extent that it's become the "main weapon" of some of my characters (that unfortunately never seem to get the opportunity to pull the weapon that's SUPPOSED to be their main). What about skipping the Falchion or Greatsword and getting some kind of Polearm like a Lucerne Hammer with Reach of 15 feet (same as you'd have had through Snap Shot/Improved Snap Shot)? Smack them around before they can get close enough to hit anyone, and thanks to the Spiked Gauntlet you can still smack them around if they get within your range! (and with both enlarge and lead blades, it'll be hitting for 1d8 itself)

This is the character I'm planning to play until he goes to 20, if I can find the adventures to do so in Society.

So here's my current plan:
Human
Strength 16 (5 points, +2 Bonus Points)
Dexterity 16 (10 points, will be putting all but one of the bonus points here)
Constitution 13 (3 points, will be putting first bonus point here)
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 12 (2 points, I don't like relying on equipment to be able to cast the lowest level spells)
Charisma 10

I'm aware I could dump Charisma and up Constitution or Intelligence (if I want more Skill Points).

Starting Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot

Planned Progression
Level 1-6: Beastmaster
Level 7: Delver Prestige Class
Level 8+: Rest in Beastmaster

The prestige class is mostly to get its class skills and trapfinding. I'm aware I could get trapfinding and most of the class skills with a level of rogue (and do so earlier) but I like the benefits of the Delver PrC.

Planned Feats:
1: Point Blank Shot
Human: Precise Shot
Ranger 2: Rapid Shot
* I picked these early instead of Power Attack, because I sort of want to rush to get that early "machine-gun" build started.
3: Power Attack
5: *On another Ranger Build, I'd put Boon Companion here, but not with the Beastmaster. Combat Reflexes OR Furious Focus.
7: Manyshot
9: Deadly Aim
Ranger 10(at level 11): Improved Precise Shot
11: Vital Strike
13: Furious Focus

That's what I have right now. Things I'm considering: Taking Deadly Aim at 5 instead of 9 (but early on is when those penalties to hit hurt the most on Ranged), when to take Combat Reflexes and Furious Focus .

I'm aware that dropping Strength to bump Dex to 18 is an option, but I'm not sure if it's actually going to reap as great a reward as I'd like if I do that.

I want the skills and trapfinding from Delver, so I'm pretty set on that, though what level to take it at is flexible.

I've got a GM XP credit applied to the character for its first PFS XP point, and will be playing it for the first time this Friday. I'd love to hear peoples thoughts and advice before then.

The idea differs from TreantMonk's "Switch Hitter" build in that you are first, primarily, an archer but not SOLELY an archer. You're an archer who can also get into melee and mix it up, and at the high end you'll have as high or better AC than a normal "Switch Hitter". (Celestial Armor, 20 Dex, +6 Dex from a belt = 27 AC before Barkskin + Rings + other stuff, compared to a Mithral Full Plate with a +3 capped Dex, which would be a lot more expensive and even a +5 version would still only get you a 27 AC before barkskin, rings, etc.)

I'm curious on peoples' thoughts of Quick Draw vs. Vital Strike, after I outlined the choice above, and on what other feats would go well with this build. I'm planning on the Wolf companion early on (trip, trip, trip the bad guy!) or the Constrictor (grab!), and switching to the Roc later on when it gets Large size. (Side note: I'm thinking of getting the Roc early and keeping a few potions of Reduce person, so I can hop on it and fly out of reach of enemies and pelt them with arrows from above if necessary) I'll probably keep a 1 level extra non-combat companion for spying/scouting eventually, too. And, well, just curious in general what people think of the build and tactics presented.

I think it, for the most part, offers most of the same benefits of the Switch Hitter AND the "ranger archer" build, it just goes about some of them differently, while also giving you access to the full druid animal companion list. The downside to doing it this way, of course, being that the animal companion won't be at your level until you hit Ranger level 12, since you won't be bothering with Boon Companion.

I'm also aware some people may say that taking so many of the archery feats as normal feats instead of bonus feats is "sub-optimal." I'm not saying it isn't, but I AM saying that "mechanically optimal" does not necessarily mean "optimal IN PLAY." I don't want to wait until level 15 to start becoming an effective combatant. Instead, as of level 2, I intend to be able to pump multiple arrows per round, and contribute significantly to the group instead of having to be carried until the "mechanically optimal" build becomes playable.

Planned equipment: Belt of Physical Might (Str & Dex), Bracers of Falcon's Aim, Headband of Inspired Wisdom (+? only need a +2 to use all spells), Feather Step Slippers, Eyes of Keen Sight, Celestial Armor, Efficient Quiver, Handy Haversack.

Thanks in advance everyone for your input!