| Snaake |
I'd like to bump this thread slightly because I just ran across this issue. The thread is pretty recent, and the issue is basically exactly what it says on the tin, even if the first post was more about magic items. Just made a new character, starting out as a Ninja. So: he gets poison use at first level, and would like to use other alchemical stuff. I was just going to let this stuff be flavour text for him, use craft(alchemy) as the day job and maybe buy the 5pp vanity shop for 5% discount, but...
After reading the FAQ for PFS, the exception for alchemists is just WTF-material. Before 3rd level they're just as slow, or fast, as anyone else when using craft(alchemy); the +1 or +2 bonus from the class ability isn't that important. I could maybe live with crafting being allowed when they get the swift alchemy ability at 3rd level (halving crafting times). This would be more in line with the only other exception: currently poisoner rogues are also allowed to craft poisons with craft(alchemy) at 3rd level (after they get the master poisoner ability). They (and alchemists) are currently the only ones able to acquire poisons outside 5 listed, preset, always-allowed-for-anyone-with-poison-use choices.
This was my understanding of the FAQ. Since crafting items (at normal speed) isn't allowed due to time-keeping stuff (which I fully understand as a reason) *why do they allow lvl 1-2 alchemists to do it?* Crafting poisons is pretty slow going for a poisoner too, and they never fully level out of that, because they don't get an ability for it, and also poisons are pretty expensive compared to their DCs, and hence take 4 or more times as long to craft as an average alchemical item.
A small comparison: I could (and actually might, with this ninja) multiclass into alchemist with 10 (or 11) int, and if I didn't have any ranks, I'd have craft(alchemy) +2 (+1 from the class ability, +1 from portable lab). Compared to the same ninja, with 1 rank, a better lab, class skill bonus, and let's just go overboard with skill focus, for a total of +9.
This brings me to a secondary point, which was actually the original line of inquiry: Poisons are just too damn expensive compared to their utility, that for most of them, they're really not worth using. For home campaigns or longer-format games than the usual PFS scenario, they can be a nice. Making this worse is that most combats in PFS tend to be really short and often with little preparation time, making applying a poison and waiting for it to have it's effects once you hit pretty useless. Because they'll be dead by the time they feel it (due to other party members), and because the effects of the always available poisons are about 1d2 str or dex.
IMO poisons should be cheaper if it's such a limited list, since the boost hardly exists, or more easily available, so the cost would limit their use. Allow anyone with poison use to also make them?