Sinivar's page

@Sinivar:

You are not listening.

Pot, kettle. You're ignoring parts convenient to making your point.

"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: title, it has no mechanical effects

unarmed attack has a specific meaning in pathfinder, why do you feel in this instance it has no mechanical effect?

What it say: sometime unarmed attacks count as armed. The object of the phrase is unarmed attack. touch attacks aren't included.

If you continue on to read the very next sentence in the CRB it talks about spell touch attacks. They are included in the Standard Actions section discussing unarmed attacks. Why discuss them there if they are not unarmed attacks.

@Sinivar

Well, I guess it was a roundabout way of saying that you can't use it with touch attacks. That isn't relevant to this thread?

That's not what you said though. And if that is what you're saying, why?

@Sinivar

Which is exactly what I was referring to.

Because "normal" unarmed attacks don't ignore armor class.

And completely irrelevant because if you read my post, or even just the topic headline, I'm asking about spell touch attacks not unarmed attacks in general.

Touch attacks aren't mentioned in the AoMF, so it don't affect them.

The AoMF talks about unarmed attacks, and p182 says that touch attacks to deliver spells are considered 'armed' unarmed, just like monks, IUS and natural attacks. That means it is a category of unarmed attacks.

What else does that term 'armed' unarmed mean? Why phrase it that way if is not in fact an unarmed attack?

IUS Feat
Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed

This is exactly the confusion I'm asking about, and quoting it doesn't somehow make it clearer.

Having this feat means your unarmed attacks are now considered to be armed. Having an active touch spell means your unarmed attack is considered armed. Why does one benefit from AoMF but not the other?

If an active touch spell is not considered an unarmed attack, why is it specifically described as one on p182?

Sure, but then you can't ignore armor.

Inaccurate... you can try and delivery a touch spell as part of a normal unarmed or natural attack when 'holding the charge', but then it takes a separate action to make that attack and is no longer considered a touch attack.

"Armed" in those paragraph don't mean "with weapons", it refer to page 182.

And page 182 is about not provoking Attack of opportunity, not about using weapons.

A touch attack benefit from a AoMF when attacking, i.e. making your to hit roll.
The damage, generally, will not benefit, but that can depend on the attack you just made.

Or, at least, that is how I have seen people play.

None of what you just said made any sense. I never talked about 'with weapons', and you give zero reasoning for your statement on touch attacks benefiting from AoMF on hit rolls. If there's an actual rule in a book stating any of that please let me know where, but I'm not looking for opinion or how your group has played it.

p182 of the CRB lists the following types of attacks as 'armed' unarmed attacks: a monk, a character with IUS feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons.

Since it is grouped in with monk attacks and IUS attacks, this would lead me to believe that touch spells benefit from an Amulet of Mighty Fists. Nowhere else in the 'Attack' section of Standard Actions does it discuss spell touch attacks.

p185 of the CRB describes touch spells as 'an armed attack'

This would lead me to believe touch spells do NOT benefit from an AoMF.

Everything I've read elsewhere on the forums, as well as my gut reaction and the general accepted play I've experienced with every iteration of tabletop gaming, says the latter of the two is the correct interpretation.

However, I'm trying to go strictly by RAW. I can't find Errata changing or correcting the first statement, or a satisfactory explanation of why 'armed' unarmed is used to describe Monk attacks, IUS attacks, touch spell attacks, and natural attacks, but one of those four listed doesn't benefit from an AoMF. The context of the first statement on p182 feels like a further clarification of the 'Attacks of Opportunity' section, but there's a significant amount of ambiguity in my mind.

Is there a way to set my subscription to start with issue 109 (the first part of Strange Aeons), or do I need to wait until July to place the order?