Sings-to-Stones's page

283. The meteorite never hits. Dinosaurs are never wiped out, and sentient dinosaur-descended Humanoids rule the Earth. Mammals never evolve past the livestock phase.

I'd like to thank everyone who gave up their own time and effort to help. After a bit of wrangling, and the threat of my patented sweaty moob-torture, our Inquisitor has decided to become a Cavalier instead and the Fighter has chosen to become an Evocation-Specialist Sorcerer with the Water Bloodline (Frostballs, anyone?).

And Assassin PrC has been cleared for Neutral-alignment entry in the campaign (note that nothing stops an Assassin from turning good after meeting the requirements of the PrC, but I'm going to struggle and remain at Neutral Alignment for as long as I can, and be the sole non-good bastidge in the group!). Will be going Half-Orc Rogue 5/Assassin 10 and then maxing out Rogue for as long as the campaign lasts.

Again, many, many thanks all.

Good Stuff

I'm currently debating with our GM about making a Wizard rather than the Cleric, but he wants to 'challenge' the Group. Thus far the only challenge has been not throttling the entire group for stealing all my good ideas and leaving me with a Class I really don't like....

If I do opt for the Dragon Disciple path, probably go Strength 15 (+2 Racial) Dex 12 Con 14 Int 12 Wisdom 11 Cha 15 and spend my stat increases on Charisma, trusting to the DD Prestige Class to increase the important (for this class, at least) scores appropriately.

Eh, we go by rolls most of the time, as we find the characters are more organic that way, while point-buy seems to end up with cookie-cutter characters. That said, I enjoy 20 point buys, but the 15 point ... tends to create characters that can have issues outside of their niche. Still, I believe one poster made an excellent point that Low Scores does not automatically = automatic failures. Honestly, most of us are lucky to roll a 15 or a 16, and rarely do we get more than one or two such rolls per character. Maybe it's because the scores are well rounded or maybe it's just dumb luck, but we really don't have that much of a problem with 'low' scores like a 17.

I'm sort of mad for Half-Orcs and Monstrous Races. Apologies for linking Warcraft Art to these boards, but here is an awesome picture of a Orc-themed Arcane Caster that pretty much makes me go "SORCERER!" (Yes I know it's a Warlock.) I do look at the concept for a Human Sorcerer, but from a Rule of Cool angle, I look at a Half-Orc Arcane Caster and think "Man, I can actually pull that off these days!"

I did look at those Bloodlines, but thing is, the party is relatively good aligned. I think I can get away with being a Hard-Ass, but as soon as I start popping fiendish abilities or develop strange mutations my character will be quietly taken out into the woods, set on fire and then have the ashes scattered in the wind. I honestly think I'm pushing it with Serpentine and Shadow Bloodlines as things stand. Yet ironicly enough, I could play a Wizard Necromancer and nobody so much as gives me a funny look, go figure.

Ruthless isn't much to go on. That could entirely be handled with RP. I could ruthlessly fireball you, or ruthlessly cast Hold person, and then walk up and stab you with a knife. Either way, it's a third level spell. I can't offer a lot of help until I know which you prefer.

As far as the rest of it...Sorceror has some wiggle room, since you really only need one good stat, Charisma. If you cast spells on allies and yourself most of the time (mage armor, haste, stoneskin...), then you don't even need that great of a charisma. Start with a 15, and you're good.

Ruthless could be defined as a level of rogue. A high strength arcane trickster could be quite mean. Some of the classic spells there would be invisibility, and darkness at low levels.

You could also take a look at the Ninja playtest. Ninja powers run off of charisma, so that's an option as well.

If you're headed toward eldritch knight or dragon disciple; you could also look at barbarian/sorceror.

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Finally, remember that Kingmaker takes place outside. Lots of wilderness adventures. Build appropriately. You can get by without Cosmopolitan, perhaps.

Thank you for that. By 'ruthless' I meant spells such as Pain Strike, which could brutally incapacitate a target, and spells that could provide devastating results, as well as RPing as a cold, driven bastard. I have yet to touch the Ninja class yet, haven't got my hands on the latest Advanced Combat, and I like the concept of a brutal and ruthless Arcane Trickster who uses magic and stealth to get up close to a target and then takes them down with a combination of spell and steel.

Since your charisma is a bit low, there's either two ways to go: Focus on melee as top priority, or focus on spells and skip melee at all. If you want to go for melee, just make sure you've got minimum casting skills and buff your strength and so on. Someone will probably be able to fill you in, but IIRC draconic sorcerers can be quite decent at melee. Just don't expect Fighter value in combat.

If you go spells, you have to go spells at all possible times. Since your starting Cha is just 17, you have no room at all to lose when it comes to spell levels and stats.

Errr, 17 is low for a stat at first level? And yes I was looking at the Dragon Disciple but was concerned about taking the Sorcerer's limited Spell Selection and compiling that with the Dragon Disciple's slightly limited spell progression. Although the Prestige Class does cover my concerns over armor, melee-in-a-pinch abilities and keeping up with the Bloodline Powers.

Sorcerers have a lousy BAB for a reason. They're all about spells. Give him some mooks to handle combat while he plays controller/buffer. Give him a way to escape if things go wrong. Full casters should be hard to kill, and smart enough to vanish if they're losing.

I know, just always been a melee-ish person. Nothing quite so satisfying after a hard day of dealing with the general public than going home and putting on your Rage-Face and cleaving your way through a horde of baddies.

On the other hand, you're correct. Swap out, ah, Mage Armor for Vanish, perhaps? Bracers of Armor aren't that far out of reach after the third level, and given as a Sorcerer my character isn't supposed to be in the thick of things, and adding Defensive Combat Training to the mix helps avoid the Combat Maneuver slaughter. I suppose I'm trying to do too many things with the one character.

Alright, I'll go Full Sorcerer ... now what Bloodline would be best for the 'Ruthless' theme I'm going with here? I'm looking at the Spell Selection and it's staggeringly underwhelming in terms of 'ouch' spells, but surviving to the level where I can go invest in some big 'ouch' spells for added punch is my goal ... then again I haven't played a Sorcerer in years, I'm more of a Wizard guy myself ... because at low-levels I just grab spells, put them into my Spellbooks and then make Wands with Utility Spells such as Light, Endure Elements, Mage Armor, Floating Disk and Identify, and 'fun' stuff such as Web, Attribute Buffing Spells and Gust of Wind.

Now, if any players from my group are reading this ..... *deep breath* ..... FLUMPH OFF! You bastards have already stolen my Bard, my Inquisitor, my Ranger and now my Cleric, go use your own greymatter for once, g@@$!#it! Here we go, Half-Orc Sorcerer (bloodline to be determined with your help, hopefully!)

I'm thinking Elemental, Draconic, Serpentine or Shadow as my Sorcerer Bloodlines, and these are spells I am thinking I should be taking, and I'm also aware that most Paizo campaigns officially 'end' around the level 13-15 mark.

I am also wondering whether or not I should go Full Sorcerer (although I loathe having that miserable BAB Sorcerers and Wizards must endure), going Dragon Disciple (Rawr) or take a level of Fighter (I know Ranger is mathematically better than Fighter, but those bonus feats, and the fact I am trying to avoid a heavy coating of cheese, points to the Fighter as my go-to dipping class) and take 7 levels in Eldritch Knight before swinging back to Sorcerer. While I know that our current party, Bard, Inquisitor, Ranger, Fighter, Cleric plus my Sorcerer pretty much has the Melee/Physical Ranged part fairly stitched up, I enjoy having a little bit of 'Oomph' in that direction with every character I make, if only for the inevitable scrap the caster will get involved in.

Obvious feats would be Combat Casting, Defensive Combat Training, Magical Aptitude, Spell Penetration, Cosmopolitan and either Forge Ring (if going Full Sorcerer or Dragon Disciple) or Arcane Armor Training (if going Eldritch Knight)

Any and all suggestions on the composition of the 'Ruthless' Sorcerer is welcomed. I have checked out the (unfinished) Sorcerer Handbook made by Minstrelinthegallery, but I wanted to double-check with some other people first.

And again, Jason, Sarah, Martin, Luke, Michy .... stay the eff away from this, please, you guys have systematically yoinked every character concept I've statted for this and the past three campaigns. Cut it out.

Anybody? I'm hoping to avoid taking the same 'classes' I always did and try to use either an alternative version or one of the new 'Core' Classes to shake myself up a bit, but I've never played of the 'finished' APG Core Classes.

Two different schools of thought here.

1) Aggressive character that can go in and tear somebody in half with either weapons or unarmed strikes (or possibly spells, but I'm trying to avoid the 'over 9000!' trope here) and still have utility outside of combat, such as being a Survival/Outdoors Expert and/or Skill Monkey.

2) Support Character with some strong offensive abilities but mostly support abilities. A Character that can keep the party going without stealing the spot-light or being slotted into the old 'potion on legs' role in Combat, although there will be obvious encounters where the party will need Cure spells every other round, no doubt.

I did this system to make lizardmen and others viable 0hd races.

Errrr, would it be possible to have it reprinted here? I'm a bit dubious about following links, for reasons of security. I am sorry.

Sings-to-Stones wrote:

Swim Speed.... +2 Racial Bonus to Swim and Acrobatics

Just so you know a swim speed grants a +8 bonus on swim checks and a character with a swim speed can always take 10 on a swim check. You don't really need the added +2, I'd make it +2 on Acrobatics and Climb. On another note, I'd probably go with the +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Int to make them feel more like the other races (+2 to 1 physical stat, +2 to 1 mental stat, -2 to a physical or mental stat). On the bite/claw issue, if you do both, I'd make the bite the primary and the claw the secondary (just my 2cp). I like this idea and may use it in my homebrew world if anyone wants to play a Lizardfolk rather than one of the 10 homebrewed races I have.

I agree with you on the Swim Speed, changing the swim-bonus to perhaps Survival and Acrobatics, being able to hunt and move around the swamp out of the water would make the Lizardlings quite adaptable and possibly the apex predator in their environment.

In regards to the abiltiy scores, I'm keeping them the same as the existing Lizardfolk Scores simply because, to me, only the fittest and strongest survive, and the Lizardfolk's brains are, in a very real way, not so advanced as the average Humanoid because of their physiology and life-cycle, in the same way that a average House-Cat is smarter than a Crocodile, although the Crocodile is a more efficient predator.

A variation I am thinking of is a Gecko-Descended race, created in ages past by a Archmage who was befriended by a pair of Huge-sized Geckos of quasi-divine nature. The male died in a great battle against a Dragon, and while the Archmage wasn't able to completely revive the male, he was able to spawn a new race from his remains that is watched over today by the female of the pair as their Goddess. They live in the upper reaches of the cave-systems of mountains and are the favourite prey of Giant Eagles and other large predators due to their slow speed. The legacy of their mythical creation has imbued them with an inherent resistance to most mortal magic, and they possess soft scales with a limited ability to change colour, both as a defensive mechanism and a way of conveying their moods.

Some evil countries hunt the Gecko-Kith for their hides, which can be fashioned into beautiful Hide-Armor that can easily accept magical enhancements to resist hostile spells or create illusory effects. Gecko-Kith spare no expense to hunting down and slaying those who wear such armors, however, and many would-be trappers seeking the Gecko-Kith for such reasons often find themselves left naked on the highest peaks of the mountains for Giant Eagles and other carnivores to deal with.

Humanoid (Reptilian)
Small Size
-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity +2 Wisdom*
Land Speed 20 ft
Climb Speed 10 ft (2 points)
+4 Dodge Bonus against Animal(1 points)
+4 CMD against Bull-Rush attempts. The limbs of the Gecko-Kith end in pads tipped with thousands of tiny barbs, making it exceedingly difficult to pull them off their perches.
+2 Racial Bonus to Stealth checks due to their chameleon skins blending in with the background environment. (1 point)
-2 penalty to Bluff due to their chameleon skins giving away their emotions somewhat. (-1 point)
Dark-Vision (2 point)
Spell Resistance 6+Class Levels (4 points)

Makes a credible contender to the Kobolds as the 'little guys' of the Scaly Races. Also Geckos are cute and nobody would take them seriously until the PCs walked into an ambush and found themselves staring up at the roof of a cave that has a whole platoon of the little bastads clinging side-by-side from the stalacmites, taking aim with shortbows at the PCs because one of them made the mistake of not asking where that 'beautiful snake-skin spell-pouch' was actually made....

*Edited as per Northbrb's comment. He made a valid point... and given their distance from most other races the Wisdom ties in nicely to their survival instincts.

I'd rather build up from weak to strong rather than the other way around. I agree that Natural Attacks can tend to be weak, but again I was trying to build off the Lizardfolk in the Monster Manual (Pathfinder), for the 'basic' Lizardfolk PC Race.

Perhaps a better 'build' would leave the Natural Weapons out of the equation altogether and build off the other traits?

Humanoid (Reptilian)
+2 Strength +2 Constitution -2 Intelligence
Land Speed 30 ft
Swim Speed 15 ft (2 points)
Hold Breath (1 point)
+1 Natural Armor (4 points)
+2 Racial Bonus to Swim and Acrobatics (2 points)
Low-Light Vision (1 point)

I've never understood Lizardfolk having Nightvision, given they are cold-blooded and probably wouldn't venture out into dark, cold environments, although a Swamp would probably necessitate some form of enchanced perception skills, and a healthy resistance to the diseases and poisons that abound in such environments, developed by plants, animals and the very earth itself ....

Possible 2nd variant ...

Humanoid (Reptilian)
+2 Strength +2 Constitution -2 Intelligence
Land Speed 30 ft
Swim Speed 15 ft (2 points)
Hold Breath (1 point)
+2 Racial Bonus to Swim and Acrobatics (2 points)
+2 Save Bonus vs Diseases and Poisons (2 points)
Dark-Vision (2 point)
Weapon Familiarity with Blowgun, Javelin and Morningstar.

Homebrew Feats:

Strong Jaws
Your jaws are strong enough to make a bite attack.
Prerequisites: Humanoid (Reptilian) Subtype, Monstrous Humanoid Subtype, Humanoid (Gnoll) Subtype or Humanoid (Orc) Subtype, str 13.
Benefit: You gain a bite-attack as a Primary Natural Attack, 1d6 damage for a Medium Creature, 1d4 for a Small Creature or 1d8 for a Large Creature.

Strong Tail
Your tail is strong enough to be used as a weapon.
Prerequisities: Humanoid (Reptilian) Subtype, Shapechanger Subtype, Monstrous Humanoid Subtype, Magical Beast Subtype or Humanoid (Aquatic) Subtype, str 15, tail.
Benefit: You can use your tail as a Primary Natural attack, 1d8 damage for a Medium Creature, 1d6 for a Small Creature or 1d10 for a Large Creature.
Special: The DM is the final arbiter on what sorts of tail may or may not be suitable to be used with this feat.

Now, Lizardfolk. People love them. They're an iconic race and in some campaigns, they can be an excellent resource for DMs as recurring enemies, wise allies or intriguing backgrounds for a campaign.

But what about people wanting to play a 'Lizardfolk' race? We have the Humanoid (Reptilian) subtype, but few actual PC Races to use with it.

Also I would link the rather informative thread that another player made about 'values' of racial abilities but Pathfinder seems to have swallowed the link and is instead linking me to the Pathfinder Store.

Here's the Link to the actual page, VoodooMike's PF Race Building Guide , and it's quite useful for building a relatively balanced race.

Racial Abilities:

+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence.

Swim Speed of 30 feet (4 points)

Natural Claw Attack (1d4) (4 points)

Hold Breath (2 points)

A natural Lizardfolk is better than this, but at the same point puts the Player on an 'even level' with his companions in terms of starting power.

I'll post more later, just got a call to go pick up a friend from hospital, seems they're kicking her out because a pair of broken legs isn't 'serious'. Ffffff....